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Post by treese on Dec 7, 2010 10:46:35 GMT -5
Not really. Help me out. Well I guess one parallel is that his success went with the financial support by the administration. You're going to have to spell out the rest for me. Let's see, Wyatt coached 13 seasons total, one 4-7 (the first one) and three 5-6 (three of his last four). So four out of 13 were losing seasons. He won 64.6% of his games at Cookman. You could make a case either way that he should have been fired given the downward spiral his team took near the end. But does that mean he shouldn't have been hired? I think not, given his overall success. By comparison, Hayes lost to d-2 Central his last year, had 15 years at Ayantee, 2-9 his first one, 5-6 his second one. He had a 4-7 in the middle and 4-8 his final year. So four out of his 15 were losing. He won 60.3% of his games at Ayantee. Pretty similar. Does that mean he should have been fired? Or should not have been hired? ;D ;D What are Martin's realistic expectations and goals? To go back to the glory days of Hayes when we could expect to win eight by playing three d-2 teams and losing to every pwc with a winning record we can get on the schedule? We ain't gonna do much better than that, let's face it. We actually don't have a budget that will support that meager goal. Our budget and infrastructure support 1-10 and 0-11 seasons, with a 4-6 thrown in for good measure every now and again. Dooms You're off a bit... Watt's first year was 1998...1997 was Jack "Cy" McClairen last year 4-7. Alvin B. Wyatt, Sr. 1998 to 2009 1998 8-3 1999 7-4 2000 9-2 2001 6-4 2002 11-2 2003 9-3 2004 6-4 2005 7-4 2006 5-6 2007 5-6 2008 8-3 2009 5-6 86 W's & 47 L's
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 7, 2010 10:52:09 GMT -5
Trust me, Wyatt's first year was 1997. b-cuathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/wyattsr_alvinb00.htmlThey beat us his first year coaching 26-25 after we led the whole danged game. In the paper he was quoted as saying "I am vengeance" after we whupped that butt the prior year. He went 4-7 overall that year.
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Dec 7, 2010 11:33:10 GMT -5
I'll settle for being competitive within the MEAC for now. I have no illusions beyond that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 11:33:12 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right. It's not a parallel. Maynor achieved his success somewhere else. If you want to compare Maynor at Winston with Jenkins at BCU, that's one thing. This ain't the same. Would you be happy with the same thing Hayes gave us? Personally, hell no! I want playoff wins damnit! But I just have to settle for 8 win seasons and a$$ kickings in the 1st round because I don't have that kind of money to give to A&T Athletics, yet. I am only 24 and I got Student Loans to pay off. Yikes...
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 7, 2010 11:40:14 GMT -5
West coast, my young padawan, I was much the same way. I walked up to Renick after we lost to Youngstown State in the second round of the playoffs and told him Hayes would never get us any further. I rejoiced when Hayes was canned. Look at me now. LOOK AT ME!!!! LOOK AT US!!!!!!
We ain't getting no d-1 playoff wins son. Not now, not ever. What coach that can guarantee that success can we get? There ain't one. Time to temper the expectations.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 11:58:56 GMT -5
Heck, I would be happy with Chancellor Martin having some sort of committee drawing out long-term Athletic Goals for his teams and Student-Athletes.
I would also be happy if Chancellor Martin and the AD decided and said publicly he wants to limit scholarships to 40 or less in football and giving our baseball & basketball teams more support to compete on a national level. To have a desire to get baseball on B-CU's level and get Men's Basketball on a level to consistently dominate the conference and earn multiple NCAA tourney bids.
The NCAA Tourney is really where the $$$ is. And besides, most A&T fans only care about beating WSSU, NCCU, Homecoming and to a lesser extent Howard in football on a regular basis.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 7, 2010 12:13:30 GMT -5
i'd be happy with a repeat of hayes' record over the long term. hail, there is no other football era in a&t history that won more games! and folk need to lower expectations when it comes to the playoffs, hbcu's don't compete on a level playing field and having the best coach on the planet wouldn't change that.
are hbcu's gonna have equal access to the best "white" fcs football players in the country? hail, no! but the pwc's do. are hbcu's ever gonna "out spend" pwc's in athletics? hail, no! so until hbcu's can recruit from the same talent pool as pwc's and spend as much on human and physical resources as pwc's, don't expect an hbcu to make a serious run in playoffs anytime soon. just not realistic.
so heck yeah i'd be happy with a repeat record of bill hayes' tenure as head coach. i wouldn't be satisfied, but i certainly would be happy to average about 8 wins per season given the current state of our program...
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 7, 2010 12:17:58 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right. It's not a parallel. Maynor achieved his success somewhere else. If you want to compare Maynor at Winston with Jenkins at BCU, that's one thing. This ain't the same. if maynor got the job, he'd be new to the meac as a coach, inexperienced as a head coach in the meac, he'd replace a long time tenured meac coach, and he'd be a young energetic offensive minded head coach. brian jenkins had those exact same credentials when he took over at bcu. those are the parallels...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 12:31:32 GMT -5
Timeout!
Contrary to popular belief, HBCU's have the ability to recruit ANYONE they want. They just have to have the salesman to get them there. For instance, at Savannah State, the coach they fired was able to "recruit" white players to SSU.
I see multiple white players on A&T's squad and there had been Samoans on the team as well. White kids will not turn down an opportunity to play at A&T if we can sell it right, just as any other player.
If Murray State can recruit kids to play ball in the Middle of Nowhere, A&T can go out and recruit some good white linemen, if that coach has that desire to sell the team.
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Post by krazykev on Dec 7, 2010 12:48:38 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right. It's not a parallel. Maynor achieved his success somewhere else. If you want to compare Maynor at Winston with Jenkins at BCU, that's one thing. This ain't the same. if maynor got the job, he'd be new to the meac as a coach, inexperienced as a head coach in the meac, he'd replace a long time tenured meac coach, and he'd be a young energetic offensive minded head coach. brian jenkins had those exact same credentials when he took over at bcu. those are the parallels... Jenkins is not all that, he has an all star staff with more credentials than him. That is the reason for their success this season. The AD knew he was getting a young position coach and had to surround him with experience coaching to succeed.
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Post by krazykev on Dec 7, 2010 12:52:17 GMT -5
Timeout! Contrary to popular belief, HBCU's have the ability to recruit ANYONE they want. They just have to have the salesman to get them there. For instance, at Savannah State, the coach they fired was able to "recruit" white players to SSU. I see multiple white players on A&T's squad and there had been Samoans on the team as well. White kids will not turn down an opportunity to play at A&T if we can sell it right, just as any other player. If Murray State can recruit kids to play ball in the Middle of Nowhere, A&T can go out and recruit some good white linemen, if that coach has that desire to sell the team. We had one Somoan during the Fobbs era and the white kids are mostly kickers. We have tried to recruit white offensive lineman but, they go else where. Ragsdale was recruiting one last year and he took a walk-on invitation to UNC instead of getting a full ride from us.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2010 13:05:41 GMT -5
Timeout! Contrary to popular belief, HBCU's have the ability to recruit ANYONE they want. They just have to have the salesman to get them there. For instance, at Savannah State, the coach they fired was able to "recruit" white players to SSU. I see multiple white players on A&T's squad and there had been Samoans on the team as well. White kids will not turn down an opportunity to play at A&T if we can sell it right, just as any other player. If Murray State can recruit kids to play ball in the Middle of Nowhere, A&T can go out and recruit some good white linemen, if that coach has that desire to sell the team. We had one Somoan during the Fobbs era and the white kids are mostly kickers. We have tried to recruit white offensive lineman but, they go else where. Ragsdale was recruiting one last year and he took a walk-on invitation to UNC instead of getting a full ride from us. Meh... The new coaches must keep the lines cast in the lake. They will show up. We will not get a majority but as long as we keep trying, you won't hear any complaints from me about this. BTW: It sucks that Out of State Waiver rule is in place because we could definitely draw more Samoan linemen from CA. If Murray State's Coach Hatcher (and staff) can lure 2 to play in bumfuck, KY, A&T can definitely attract more.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 7, 2010 14:32:32 GMT -5
Timeout! Contrary to popular belief, HBCU's have the ability to recruit ANYONE they want. They just have to have the salesman to get them there. For instance, at Savannah State, the coach they fired was able to "recruit" white players to SSU. I see multiple white players on A&T's squad and there had been Samoans on the team as well. White kids will not turn down an opportunity to play at A&T if we can sell it right, just as any other player. If Murray State can recruit kids to play ball in the Middle of Nowhere, A&T can go out and recruit some good white linemen, if that coach has that desire to sell the team. i never said hbcu's can't recruit white players at all. i said hbcu's can't recruit "the best" white fcs players. sure, most meac schools have at least 1 or 2 white players on their team, but they're not amongst "the best" white fcs players in the country. the vast majority of them go to pwc's and that's just simply a fact. otherwise, the meac would have a hail of a lot more "all conference" white players than it does. westcoast, you're good at research. i haven't checked, but i'd be willing to bet that the "overwhelming majority" of white fcs players (if not all of them) that make it to the nfl attended pwc's. that shouldn't be too difficult to research. show me where any hbcu that has or had a white player that made it to the nfl or made the all american team. if the playing field is level, then you ought to be able to find plenty of them...
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Dec 7, 2010 15:20:55 GMT -5
So, I take it from the pages of this thread we don't have any idea what Chancellor Martin's Realistic Expectations and Goals are for Aggies Athletics, specifically football? Why do you think that is?
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 7, 2010 15:43:28 GMT -5
Maybe because Martin doesn't have an idea what his own goals are ... or even what his own goals should be.
To borrow a line from Shaq, Martin is the Master of Panic. He showed us that during last year's homecoming concert controversy, he showed us that again after the track athlete's death, and he is showing us now after a 1-10 football season.
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