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Post by planoaggie on Feb 27, 2023 17:24:21 GMT -5
putting the cart before the horse, imo. sure, its okay to place a "ceiling" on what the new coach's salary should be. but in terms of what his actual salary should be, should be determined on a "case-by-case" basis. how much we're willing to pay a new head coach won't necessarily land us the best possible candidate who's interested in our job. i wouldn't even be talking "salary" before finding the prospects for our head job. again, i repeat, if we pay more than $300k for a head men's basketball coach, the ad should be "fired". we don't need a "high priced" head coach, period. especially not one who earns more than our head football coach. coaching football is far more "complex" than coaching basketball. this idea that because a conference member pays their head coach an astronomical salary (relatively speaking), doesn't mean we have to be influenced by that salary. last i checked, we currently have athletes who complain about a lack of resources for things like nutrition programs. yet, we gone pay a basketball coach far beyond our means? just don't make sense to me. especially knowing as i do that there's tons of highly qualified head basketball coaches out there who would easily settle for far less and very likely would remain content to stay in place over the "long term"... Sorry oleschoolaggie, but I am going to have to disagree with some of the comments in your post. I agree with you that a hiring of a new HC should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. In my opinion, when generating a list of potential HC candidates "A&T can afford" Martin and Hilton must consider all of the following simultaneously: coaching & recruiting experience, availability, program success, current salary/contract, staffing, etc. Your post seem to suggest that they should not be discussing a "ceiling" or "salary" before finding a prospective HC. Universities and companies have a good idea of what they are willing to pay for a particular hiring position. I don't know why you feel A&T should treat this any differently. This is only an opinion poll on what we all feel should be the ceiling salary of hiring a new head coach. Just one of the above significant factors and possibly not the deciding factor. Also, you seem to imply that we have this outlier of 1 CAA MBB head coach that is making more than A&T's football head coach. That is incorrect. Quite a few CAA MBB HCs are making more than our football HC. What one school does, doesn't necessarily influence others, but what many do can and may influence others. It is still A&T's decision on how to use all of the collective information. No one has taken that away, but in my opinion what these CAA schools are paying their MBB HCs will have an impact on what we pay our next MBB HC. How much? It's anyone's guess. I already said my opinion may be way out there, but it carries no more significant weight than your or other's opinion. From the poll results right now it appears quite a few people agree with your salary range.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 27, 2023 19:09:40 GMT -5
putting the cart before the horse, imo. sure, its okay to place a "ceiling" on what the new coach's salary should be. but in terms of what his actual salary should be, should be determined on a "case-by-case" basis. how much we're willing to pay a new head coach won't necessarily land us the best possible candidate who's interested in our job. i wouldn't even be talking "salary" before finding the prospects for our head job. again, i repeat, if we pay more than $300k for a head men's basketball coach, the ad should be "fired". we don't need a "high priced" head coach, period. especially not one who earns more than our head football coach. coaching football is far more "complex" than coaching basketball. this idea that because a conference member pays their head coach an astronomical salary (relatively speaking), doesn't mean we have to be influenced by that salary. last i checked, we currently have athletes who complain about a lack of resources for things like nutrition programs. yet, we gone pay a basketball coach far beyond our means? just don't make sense to me. especially knowing as i do that there's tons of highly qualified head basketball coaches out there who would easily settle for far less and very likely would remain content to stay in place over the "long term"... Sorry oleschoolaggie, but I am going to have to disagree with some of the comments in your post. I agree with you that a hiring of a new HC should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. In my opinion, when generating a list of potential HC candidates "A&T can afford" Martin and Hilton must consider all of the following simultaneously: coaching & recruiting experience, availability, program success, current salary/contract, staffing, etc. Your post seem to suggest that they should not be discussing a "ceiling" or "salary" before finding a prospective HC. no, my "exact" quote was " its okay to place a "ceiling" on what the new coach's salary should be". however, i don't think a "specific" salary should be discussed before identifying the final prospects for our head job. then, at that time, his actual salary should be determined on a "case-by-case" basis. that's quite contrary to what you alleged i stated. its not important to me how much other conference schools pay their coaches because that doesn't mean we have to match, exceed, or come close to their pay scale in order to find a head coach that can kick their azzes. i dunno, maybe its because i've been in the trenches with fellow basketball coaches for a very long time and i "personally" know a lot of coaches who are "highly qualified" to lead a d1 college program. i know of "several" who went directly from the aau/high school ranks to become successful d1 head coaches. the idea that because another conference member pays their coach a "sky high" salary means nothing to me. it certainly doesn't mean he's any better of a coach than someone who makes far "less" than he does at a different school. so what coc pays their coach would be totally "meaningless" to me if i were a&t's ad...
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Post by planoaggie on Feb 27, 2023 20:21:36 GMT -5
Sorry oleschoolaggie, but I am going to have to disagree with some of the comments in your post. I agree with you that a hiring of a new HC should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. In my opinion, when generating a list of potential HC candidates "A&T can afford" Martin and Hilton must consider all of the following simultaneously: coaching & recruiting experience, availability, program success, current salary/contract, staffing, etc. Your post seem to suggest that they should not be discussing a "ceiling" or "salary" before finding a prospective HC. no, my "exact" quote was " its okay to place a "ceiling" on what the new coach's salary should be". however, i don't think a "specific" salary should be discussed before identifying the final prospects for our head job. then, at that time, his actual salary should be determined on a "case-by-case" basis. that's quite contrary to what you alleged i stated. its not important to me how much other conference schools pay their coaches because that doesn't mean we have to match, exceed, or come close to their pay scale in order to find a head coach that can kick their azzes. i dunno, maybe its because i've been in the trenches with fellow basketball coaches for a very long time and i "personally" know a lot of coaches who are "highly qualified" to lead a d1 college program. i know of "several" who went directly from the aau/high school ranks to become successful d1 head coaches. the idea that because another conference member pays their coach a "sky high" salary means nothing to me. it certainly doesn't mean he's any better of a coach than someone who makes far "less" than he does at a different school. so what coc pays their coach would be totally "meaningless" to me if i were a&t's ad... Oleschoolaggie, I now understand your initial post. You are talking about "specific" salary after finding a prospective HC. I call that the negotiation phase or structuring of a contract to come up with a final agreed upon salary. You gave your ceiling number which is helpful to all. I too know coaches at the high school level that I believe would do well at the college level and you would not have to pay this abnomous salary. But fans and administrators are impatient at times, so these days we pay a high salary for recycled coaches at the NBA, NFL, MLB, and college levels. You are right that the higher paid coach is not necessarily the better coach, but how do you prove that. Opportunity. The higher you move up in competition level the lower the risk taken by ADs or GMs. Why do you think it is so difficult for good assistant coaches or coordinators to get hired as head coaches? I get it that you want A&T to ignore the trend or outside influence, but A&T will do a cost/risk analysis and make their decision with little or no input from anyone on this forum. In the meantime, we can have fun speculating on what we believe A&T will spend to hire a new MBB HC.
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Feb 27, 2023 21:43:58 GMT -5
no, my "exact" quote was " its okay to place a "ceiling" on what the new coach's salary should be". however, i don't think a "specific" salary should be discussed before identifying the final prospects for our head job. then, at that time, his actual salary should be determined on a "case-by-case" basis. that's quite contrary to what you alleged i stated. its not important to me how much other conference schools pay their coaches because that doesn't mean we have to match, exceed, or come close to their pay scale in order to find a head coach that can kick their azzes. i dunno, maybe its because i've been in the trenches with fellow basketball coaches for a very long time and i "personally" know a lot of coaches who are "highly qualified" to lead a d1 college program. i know of "several" who went directly from the aau/high school ranks to become successful d1 head coaches. the idea that because another conference member pays their coach a "sky high" salary means nothing to me. it certainly doesn't mean he's any better of a coach than someone who makes far "less" than he does at a different school. so what coc pays their coach would be totally "meaningless" to me if i were a&t's ad... Oleschoolaggie, I now understand your initial post. You are talking about "specific" salary after finding a prospective HC. I call that the negotiation phase or structuring of a contract to come up with a final agreed upon salary. You gave your ceiling number which is helpful to all. I too know coaches at the high school level that I believe would do well at the college level and you would not have to pay this abnomous salary. But fans and administrators are impatient at times, so these days we pay a high salary for recycled coaches at the NBA, NFL, MLB, and college levels. You are right that the higher paid coach is not necessarily the better coach, but how do you prove that. Opportunity. The higher you move up in competition level the lower the risk taken by ADs or GMs. Why do you think it is so difficult for good assistant coaches or coordinators to get hired as head coaches? I get it that you want A&T to ignore the trend or outside influence, but A&T will do a cost/risk analysis and make their decision with little or no input from anyone on this forum. In the meantime, we can have fun speculating on what we believe A&T will spend to hire a new MBB HC. You both are basically saying g the same things. For me the ceiling number is were the negotiations end ,and should not be higher . Once to coach shows through his production that he can win continuously..i.e Conference and Nationally and meets all incentives and his package then the ceiling is raised.
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aggie2039
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Post by aggie2039 on Feb 28, 2023 20:31:52 GMT -5
pj said: The five-year contract outlines an annual guaranteed compensation package of $1.1 million, with a base state salary of $600,000 and an annual supplement of $500,000 from private dollars. The contract also includes incentives for reaching 20-win seasons and a variety of standard performance bonuses for conference championships, coach-of-the-year accolades and NCAA Tournament appearances.
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 1, 2023 9:24:45 GMT -5
pj said: The five-year contract outlines an annual guaranteed compensation package of $1.1 million, with a base state salary of $600,000 and an annual supplement of $500,000 from private dollars. The contract also includes incentives for reaching 20-win seasons and a variety of standard performance bonuses for conference championships, coach-of-the-year accolades and NCAA Tournament appearances. We had a similar discussion about UNCW coach high salary of $500K which $300K was based salary and $200K was supplemental income. Pat Kelsey did not receive an increase in base salary from his original contract. The major change was supplemental income added and 2 more years added to his original contract signed in 2021. I mentioned in an earlier post that we may need to follow suit if this is a trend where we pay a specific amount (base salary) of the total salary compensation and ask our boosters or businesses to help with supplemental income, bonuses, and incentive income. The final compensation package could be $200K+$50K, $200K+$100K, $300K+$50K, $300K+$100K, etc where A&T is responsible for the 1st number. I will say it again, in my opinion, we have to start thinking differently or out of the box to compete for good players and coaches in this NIL era. People think that the NCAA/Universities lost the fight in paying players when in reality they shifted the majority of responsibility in paying players to the boosters and businesses. Now it looks like some Universities are testing how much more the boosters and businesses are willing to support financially their biggest revenue producer by asking them to assist with coach's salary in targeting a good new coach or retaining a good coach. For the non-football schools like COFC and UNCW, the biggest revenue sport is basketball, but for us it is football so none of us would be surprised if boosters are paying a portion of Coach Brown's total salary. The question is whether we should do this for our 2nd biggest revenue producer. By the way COFC was practically forced to make a decision on giving their MBB coach a raise 3 years before his contract expired because it was rumored that Clemson was interested in hiring him away from COFC. They had recently lost a good coach Earl Grant (African American) to Boston College in 2021 who was making $651,000 per year at COFC. Look at the list of prospective candidates for 2021 coaching job. www.postandcourier.com/sports/college/with-earl-grant-gone-to-boston-college-cofc-begins-search-for-new-coach/article_0d1b46f0-85b0-11eb-95e6-83ccb0d3eed6.html
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 4, 2023 22:28:50 GMT -5
Now that the MBB team regular season and CAA tournament participation is over, some may want to rethink their vote or their maybe some that have now decided to vote based on team's performance today.
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A&T-roy
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Post by A&T-roy on Mar 7, 2023 17:49:15 GMT -5
Now that the MBB team regular season and CAA tournament participation is over, some may want to rethink their vote or their maybe some that have now decided to vote based on team's performance today. I'm still less than the Head Football Coach..unless we're able to land a pretty (maybe very) successful coach that was a HC during the success at our level (CAA) or higher.
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 7, 2023 19:23:13 GMT -5
Now that the MBB team regular season and CAA tournament participation is over, some may want to rethink their vote or their maybe some that have now decided to vote based on team's performance today. I'm still less than the Head Football Coach..unless we're able to land a pretty (maybe very) successful coach that was a HC during the success at our level (CAA) or higher. You and others are more knowledgeable about coach's background than I, so maybe that person is out there for that price which I will be pleasantly happy. But because I lack some knowledge about that, I have to go higher on the salary to increase A&T's chance of landing a good coach, but as someone said, I believe it was Oleschoolaggie, paying more money does not necessarily mean better coach. Just my route due to my limitations.
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Post by AggiePride on Mar 8, 2023 9:14:45 GMT -5
How much does UNCG’s coach make?
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 8, 2023 9:47:18 GMT -5
How much do the coaches at Stony Brook, Delaware, Towson, and William and Mary make? To my knowledge these four are the only other full CAA member public institutions with football teams. That would be the benchmark if I was the decision-maker.
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jbrob
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Post by jbrob on Mar 8, 2023 11:07:47 GMT -5
$1
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 8, 2023 11:32:57 GMT -5
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 8, 2023 11:40:11 GMT -5
How much do the coaches at Stony Brook, Delaware, Towson, and William and Mary make? To my knowledge these four are the only other full CAA member public institutions with football teams. That would be the benchmark if I was the decision-maker. Monmouth King Rice $446,448 Stony Brook Geno Ford $365,000 Towson Pat Skerry $445,000 William & Mary Dane Fischer $225,000 Other data points to consider: 1. Amir Abdur-Rahim Kennesaw State ASUN $200,000 2022-23 26-8 - Regular & Tourney Champs 2. John Becker Vermont Catamounts (no football) America East $318,270 2022-23: 22-10 Regular Season Champs, in tourney final 3. Mike Rhoades VCU (no football) Atlantic 10 $459,000 2022-23: 22-7 Regular Season Champs 4. Mike Morrell UNC-A (no football) Big South $135,000 2022-23: 27-7 Regular & Tourney Champs 5. Speedy Claxton Hofstra (no football) CAA $45,000 (reportedly) 2022-23: 23-8 Regular Season Champs 6. Patrick Kelsey College of Charleston (no football) CAA $1.1M 2022-23: 23-8 Tourney Champs 7. Jerrod Calhoun Youngstown Horizon League $200,000 2022-23: 24-9 Regular Season Champs 8. Darrin Horn Northern Kentucky (no football) Horizon League $400,000 2022-23: 23-8 Tourney Champs 9. Preston Spradlin Morehead Ohio Valley $180,000 2022-23: 21-11 Regular Season Champs 10. Rick Ray Southeast Missouri Ohio Valley $175,000 2022-23: 21-11 Regular Season Champs 11. Willis Wilson Texas A&M–CC (no football) Southland $210,000 2022-23: 212-10 Regular & Tourney Champs Mid-Major Coaching Contract Database
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 8, 2023 12:03:12 GMT -5
The top tier teams in the CAA pay their basketball head coaches a high salary compared to other mid-major conferences and that is because the CAA has so many non-football schools. These non-football schools have been winning the Tournament Championships for awhile and they are paying to keep it that way, so it is going to be an uphill battle for A&T to win a Tournament Championships or an at-large berth to March Madness if we don't both hire a good coach and modify pay scale for MBB.
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