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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Jan 8, 2015 11:20:16 GMT -5
The MEAC/SWAC bowl agreement was announced on 1320 AM this morning. Per the release, the MEAC gives up its AQ. However, members still retain the right to accept at-large bids to the FCS playoffs. I expect that our angle will be to continue scheduling OOC as we have before with the chance of winning out against our schedule and a respectable performance against UNC to get the at-large bid. I just don't see us moving in the direction we've been heading just to take a step back. I think it would be close to impossible to get an at-large bid under that scenario. We'd have to lose only one game, to a conference opponent that loses no conference games, and a number of chips would have to fall in other conferences as well. We'd also most likely have to be undefeated in out of conference games and play schools with winning records and strong history out of conference. That's asking for too much really. Is there an option to skip the bowl for the playoffs? Although I'm sure that wouldn't go over well, the meac ain't gonna kick anybody out. They could fine you, but you just don't pay the fine. Again, what's the conference gonna do about it? NOTHING. I'm still advocating the CIAA, but I'm curious about the current state of affairs. I hear you.... and I'm just looking at the next two years before we make a long-term decision. If we run the table in the MEAC, beat Elon, _____ and have a respectable showing against UNC.... we're 10-1 with at least 9 FCS wins. I think that gets us an at-large bid with Hilton at the table. And.... if this plays out.... I'd venture that we WOULD put a bid in for a home playoff game to help us get our foot in the door. Then... the question would be... would we still get a cut of the "Soul Bowl" payout from ESPN?...... Can Broadway pull this off with this now-veteran squad in 2015 and 2016? If we do it in 2015... we probably start off ranked in the FCS poll in 2016, which makes it easier to do it again.... It also makes it more appealing for us to jump ship to the Big South (Liberty and Turner Gill aside) or the SoCon (UNC-G can't duck us anymore in hoops). It's going to be interesting to watch this...
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 8, 2015 11:30:23 GMT -5
....the teams with like resources as us and our fellow hbcus are NOT the teams we face in the FCS playoffs. That's the issue...now we know it's too troubling to have power FCS conferences compete for a championship and then have the lower tier FCS conferences battle for a championship. So, what's the alternative? When an alternative is presented we shoot it down without true consideration which I find troubling. We can continue to fool ourselves or believe in fools' gold of winning a championship in which we are not prepared for from a financial standpoint. I choose not to.... same can be said for a lot of fbs/bcs schools. many of those schools have virtually “zero” hope of ever winning a national championship in football. no different than hbcu’s at the fcs level. schools like wake forest, army, navy, wyoming, hawaii, rice, the entire conference usa, the entire sun belt conference, just to name a few. yet, not a single one of those schools have ever moved “down” to the fcs level in order to have a better opportunity to win a national championship. truth be told, over 50% of all fbs schools have little to “zero” hope of ever winning a national championship in football, no different than hbcu’s at the fcs level. yet, none of those schools have ever moved “down” to the fcs level in order to have a better opportunity to win a national championship. my point is this. if the “realistic probability” of winning a national championship in football was a prerequisite to the division your school competes at, then by my estimate about 50% to 60% of all fbs schools would drop down to the fcs level and the same percentage goes for all fcs schools and d2 schools dropping down a division too. when the meac first decided to transition to the d1 level, i find it hard to believe that any of those decision makers were “delusional” enough to think that an hbcu would ever compete on the same level as the bcs schools in all sports. so in my opinion “competitiveness” is not the only factor involved with deciding which division to compete at. i think “prestige” is a factor, national exposure is a factor, “branding” is a factor, image is a factor, and probably several other things as well. if ncaa divisions were based on resources, we'd have about 10 or 12 different divisions by now...
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 8, 2015 11:59:37 GMT -5
truth be told, over 50% of all fbs schools have little to “zero” hope of ever winning a national championship in football, no different than hbcu’s at the fcs level. yet, none of those schools have ever moved “down” to the fcs level in order to have a better opportunity to win a national championship. my point is this. if the “realistic probability” of winning a national championship in football was a prerequisite to the division your school competes at, then by my estimate about 50% to 60% of all fbs schools would drop down to the fcs level and the same percentage goes for all fcs schools and d2 schools dropping down a division too. Excellent point. Div2 talk is crazy to me.
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 8, 2015 12:20:44 GMT -5
There are two counterpoints that should be considered:
1. Even though many schools have no hope of winning a championship, they have the proper budget and infrastructure to at least compete. We don't.
2. We really shouldn't base what we do off of what other schools are doing, unless it makes sense. To me, what Winston did by moving back made sense, and it showed on the field.
There are a number of schools who have dropped football altogether or gone the route of non-scholarship football because it was in their best interest. I maintain we have to do what is in our best interest, and I would hope that we would do what would help us have the most success on the athletic field. The only option there is d-2 or NAIA. We could give schollies and admit more kids that we desire to give a second chance.
I love reading the articles about the older guys at Winston coming back, playing, and getting their degrees. I often think "that should be Ayantee" but since we're saddled with the d-1 requirements it's a true rarity.
Why is d-2 crazy talk to you Monster? I mean, logically as opposed to the emotional attachment to d-1.
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oleschoolaggie
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2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,226
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 8, 2015 12:33:08 GMT -5
i would suggest that the “disparity” in resources at the fbs level is as disproportional as the disparity for hbcu’s at the fcs level. no way in hail wake forest’s or the air force academy resources can compare to texas or alabama. no different for hbcu’s at the fcs level...
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Post by aggiebred09 on Jan 8, 2015 12:37:09 GMT -5
Giving, Giving, Giving
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 8, 2015 13:00:07 GMT -5
Thing is, nobody's giving enough to offset. Even if they were, could you count on it year in and year out and budget by it?
If I was in charge I'd count every last penny given by outside sources as a bonus. I would never actually count on it in budgeting.
Also, we definitely don't want to take money that could and should be going into our endowment and putting it into somebody's shoulder pads.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 8, 2015 13:30:19 GMT -5
Why is d-2 crazy talk to you Monster? I mean, logically as opposed to the emotional attachment to d-1. i'm not emotionally attached to div1. Far from it. I see some plusses and minuses to staying and going. And because i dont think that dropping really outweighs staying I think we should stay. WSSU did what was best for them. Do I think some HBCUs could benefit? Yes. But do I think we would? I'm not sold on that. If we drop down to div2 the scholarships and sports will decrease. That will give us 36 scholarships. Possibly 27 less BLACK kids going to college on a free ride. And it seems like you think the entire MEAC should go div2. Thats over 250 scholarships unavailable to young black males. 30 basketball scholarships, 20 baseball scholarships. Thats assuming everyone is fully funded, which I know they are not. That doesn't even include the reduction in women's sports like basketball and track. In my opinion HBCUs need to stay div1 and we need to make it work out the best we can. If it means having a "soul bowl" then so be it. Now if your about to close your doors or bankrupt your school to stay div 1, yes, drop your tail to div2. But otherwise, make it work.
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 8, 2015 13:52:15 GMT -5
That's a valid point, sort of. Like you said we're all giving out some full rides, some partials, and allowing walk-ons the opportunity to earn a scholly. That wouldn't change if we were in d-2, other than we'd use more creative funding. Most d-2s actually have larger rosters that FCS schools. I doubt that many kids are going for free. Also, how many young black males are missing the opportunity to go to college at all because they can't get and/or remain eligible on the d-1 level in the first place? I'm certain that very real number far outpaces any theoretical loss of scholarships as a result of moving divisions. We'd most likely cut sports, but we've already done it on the d-1 level and we're certain to do it again in the future....
I don't see how we wouldn't benefit at all. I crunched the numbers years ago (see the thread in the private forum I brought back up) and they haven't changed all that much. Likewise, just because we're decently (but still inadequately) funded today (most likely with money from the Chancellor's discretionary budget) we're one minor catastrophe or one tweak in the budget away from that changing altogether.
I'm repeating myself, but I believe the best way for hbcus to make it work is to move to d-2 or NAIA.
It appears the SWAC and the MEAC have finally sort of realized they have a niche market that somebody is willing to pay for. Problem is, we'll still have the same problems and we'll also no longer compete against non-hbcus beyond the regular season.
In my perfect world, everybody goes d-2, conferences are realigned based on geography, and the hbcu block becomes the major conference players and policy drivers on the d-2 level.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 8, 2015 14:09:16 GMT -5
My point is being div1 holds you to a certain standard regardless if you give a damn or not. Going d2 lowers that standard and schools will eventually hover just above that standard because thats the easiest thing to do when a "minor catastrophe" does happen.
If several MEAC schools go d-2 my prediction is that they will all be smillng and happy for the first 3-4 years and then they will slowly creep down to 30 full rides and crying broke again. "Football isn't profitable, its a money hog, alumni dont give enough", etc, etc. and we are right back where we are now, but we are now just d-2 and cant get any more money games from basketball nor football to help out. We loss all those scholarships in the process and now we are fighting to get back to div1 so we can have all the stuff AGAIN we thought was burdening us.
I think we just need to find the right formula. The "soul bowl" is a step toward that. Or at least an attempt.
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Post by ohsixrain on Jan 8, 2015 14:18:35 GMT -5
There are two counterpoints that should be considered: 1. Even though many schools have no hope of winning a championship, they have the proper budget and infrastructure to at least compete. We don't. 2. We really shouldn't base what we do off of what other schools are doing, unless it makes sense. To me, what Winston did by moving back made sense, and it showed on the field. There are a number of schools who have dropped football altogether or gone the route of non-scholarship football because it was in their best interest. I maintain we have to do what is in our best interest, and I would hope that we would do what would help us have the most success on the athletic field. The only option there is d-2 or NAIA. We could give schollies and admit more kids that we desire to give a second chance. I love reading the articles about the older guys at Winston coming back, playing, and getting their degrees. I often think "that should be Ayantee" but since we're saddled with the d-1 requirements it's a true rarity. Why is d-2 crazy talk to you Monster? I mean, logically as opposed to the emotional attachment to d-1. That's the point I'm making, of all the schools oleschool mention, the reason for them not winning a championship is NOT due to financial resources. That alone makes the playing field level from that perspective. Those schools financial resources are sufficient enough to truly compete for a championship legitimately.
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 8, 2015 14:22:36 GMT -5
Monster, now that is a valid point. No matter where we go, circumstances, leadership, and attitudes will change. As I understand it, our current leadership has a desire to go to win a national championship in football. We all know that ain't fin to happen. But it's entirely possible in d-2.
But then current leadership retires, and we get somebody who wants to de-emphasize athletics because they find that our athletic success has led to a "tail wagging the dog" mentality. That's also entirely possible, as any national success is going to lend itself to jealousy and that jealousy will lead to some funny things happening. It always does.
Does anybody know where the money we get from the ncaa tourny is placed? I honestly believe that's what's keeping the MEAC and SWAC in division I more than anything else, but it doesn't seem to me like it's enough money to justify the expenses of d-1.
06, I have to wonder if we're in the overall minority or just in the minority on this webpage. I honestly believe the majority just want to see the band, play Winston and Central, go to homecoming, and would love to hit the CIAA championship game in football. The majority already go to the CIAA basketball tourny, and we ain't even in the conference.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 8, 2015 14:29:36 GMT -5
We need to support this thing regardless. If a black reality show can get 3.5 million viewers then imagine the check ESPN would write if the first "Soul Bowl" did better.
For comparison, the Sun Bowl payout was 2.1 million per team(4.2 million total). Viewership was 2.6 percent. The payout could/should go up if the ratings justify it. If the "soul bowl" can get a 1.5 percent or better the next year's payout and sponsors will make the first year look like chump change.
Do what you gotta do. Special halftime band performances. Drumline battles, halftime concert, whatever. Money can be made if they get this right. Even if it means turning the "Soul Bowl" into a CIAA type weekend. IF you going to sell out. Sell out all the way, LOL
no one should be saying they are not going to watch this. Regardless of if your team makes it or not.
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Post by thefriscotxaggie on Jan 8, 2015 14:45:51 GMT -5
I wonder Coach Broadways position on al this. I would bet he would not want to stick around as a DII coach. Terrell Robinson either
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 8, 2015 14:47:25 GMT -5
There are two counterpoints that should be considered: 1. Even though many schools have no hope of winning a championship, they have the proper budget and infrastructure to at least compete. We don't. 2. We really shouldn't base what we do off of what other schools are doing, unless it makes sense. To me, what Winston did by moving back made sense, and it showed on the field. There are a number of schools who have dropped football altogether or gone the route of non-scholarship football because it was in their best interest. I maintain we have to do what is in our best interest, and I would hope that we would do what would help us have the most success on the athletic field. The only option there is d-2 or NAIA. We could give schollies and admit more kids that we desire to give a second chance. I love reading the articles about the older guys at Winston coming back, playing, and getting their degrees. I often think "that should be Ayantee" but since we're saddled with the d-1 requirements it's a true rarity. Why is d-2 crazy talk to you Monster? I mean, logically as opposed to the emotional attachment to d-1. That's the point I'm making, of all the schools oleschool mention, the reason for them not winning a championship is NOT due to financial resources. That alone makes the playing field level from that perspective. Those schools financial resources are sufficient enough to truly compete for a championship legitimately. do you really think schools like wake forest, odu, app state, florida international (who bcu beat "twice"), florida atlantic, texas state, troy, georgia state, army, navy, bowling green, eastern michigan (morgan state almost beat), idaho, and arkansas state (i could go on and on) have comparable resources to the likes of texas, alabama, ohio state, michigan, florida, oklahoma, lsu, oregon, tennessee, penn state, auburn, and georgia? c'mon, ohsix. you're a smart dude. do you really believe that? you do realize that there's a major disparity in revenue between bcs schools versus non-bcs schools, correct? i would suggest that the disparity between those schools i listed is no different than the disparity between fcs hbcu's versus pwc fcs programs. in 2013, the texas longhorns athletic department generated $165.7 million in revenue by itself. do you realize that's more than the entire sun belt conference "combined" generated? imagine the comparison of revenue between the big 12 conference (of which texas is a member) and that of the sun belt? the disparity between those two conferences is even greater. sure, the lower resource fbs schools i listed make a ton more money than we do. but their revenue does not compare to the "powerful" top bcs schools...
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