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Post by ohsixrain on Jan 6, 2012 11:07:05 GMT -5
Oleschool...you obviously know more about coaching basketball than I. The simple point I was making wasn't to compare football to basketball, it was to demonstrate the underlying principle and issue is the same at A&T...no matter the sport.
Don't you think Maynor knew that he was coming to a situation where resources were limited along with APR issues and the expectation to win would be immediate? That's was the deciding factor....I don't believe it was the money as some say....WSSU didn't do anything but match what A&T's offer was.
But as for basketball, sure there are coaches out there that are good. Now, if you are talking about looking on the high school and AAU levels then, have at it. But, I'm willing to bet my paycheck, if you hire a coach from those levels and they aren't immediately successful...we'll be right back here discussing how incompetent it was for a Division I college (A&T) to hire a high school or AAU coach. From what I've seen on those levels...high school coaches are good and AAU coaches are better at recruiting. Most AAU games that I've seen really weren't coached well. The coaches pretty much stock pile their team with talent and then let them play street/pick up ball in games. That could be hit or miss. I wouldn't be opposed at looking at Shaw U's coach...he can definitely coach and recruit. BUT....1. can he stay within his annual budget; 2. can he graduate players and 3. can he secure game guarantees or money games? Decks mentioned that Eaves was performing satisfactory with 2 of the 3 requirements which is a 66% approval. I have him performing at 75% approval because of the 3 requirements that he is currently successful with. I will admit his coaching has declined the past 4 seasons. Let me ask this...can we afford to bring in a coach that can coach circles around the MEAC competition but fail at the other 3 factors?
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 6, 2012 11:29:43 GMT -5
No we cant! Which is why finding a basketball coach aint as easy as just finding someone who can "coach". He has to do the other 2 or 3 things well also. Most importantly, know the situation he is about to come into and embrace it.
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Post by thefriscotxaggie on Jan 6, 2012 12:10:32 GMT -5
Oxhsixrain, Monster
You both hit on good points thats why people like the Coach at Shaw make a good canidate.
1. He can Coach 2. He can Recruit 3. Use to working with a small b-ball operations budget and the unique financial challenges that can pop-up at a HBCU.
The first place I would look for a Coach would be the top of the CIAA Ranks. Look at this way Shaw has less budget than we do; its not D1 but they probably have as good if not better players top to bottom. And if we were to play them today we probably would not win.
I think Bowie States Coach probably fits the bill as well. While I dont know for sure I'd bet $100 that the guy at Shaw is not making $100k a year in base salary. Oh yea Coaches ability to graduate players needs to be a factor as well.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 6, 2012 12:15:04 GMT -5
Oleschool...you obviously know more about coaching basketball than I. The simple point I was making wasn't to compare football to basketball, it was to demonstrate the underlying principle and issue is the same at A&T...no matter the sport. Don't you think Maynor knew that he was coming to a situation where resources were limited along with APR issues and the expectation to win would be immediate? That's was the deciding factor....I don't believe it was the money as some say....WSSU didn't do anything but match what A&T's offer was. But as for basketball, sure there are coaches out there that are good. Now, if you are talking about looking on the high school and AAU levels then, have at it. But, I'm willing to bet my paycheck, if you hire a coach from those levels and they aren't immediately successful...we'll be right back here discussing how incompetent it was for a Division I college (A&T) to hire a high school or AAU coach. From what I've seen on those levels...high school coaches are good and AAU coaches are better at recruiting. Most AAU games that I've seen really weren't coached well. The coaches pretty much stock pile their team with talent and then let them play street/pick up ball in games. That could be hit or miss. I wouldn't be opposed at looking at Shaw U's coach...he can definitely coach and recruit. BUT....1. can he stay within his annual budget; 2. can he graduate players and 3. can he secure game guarantees or money games? Decks mentioned that Eaves was performing satisfactory with 2 of the 3 requirements which is a 66% approval. I have him performing at 75% approval because of the 3 requirements that he is currently successful with. I will admit his coaching has declined the past 4 seasons. Let me ask this...can we afford to bring in a coach that can coach circles around the MEAC competition but fail at the other 3 factors? honestly, i don't see how anybody could fail at scheduling "beat down" money games. everybody in the meac does that except hampton. hail, what "special skills" does it take to schedule money games? somebody please explain that to me. it ain't like the coach is required to win those games. and you're right about some high school and aau coaches, some of them are not very good. but the thing about that, is that there are literally "thousands" of high school and aau coaches out there. i've stated consistently that you've got to know what you're doing in order to pick the good ones. if you know what you're doing, its "easy" to find the good ones. like i stated previously, every attribute that it takes to be a good college coach can be "verified". you don't have to "guess and hope" at it. everything can be verified. did anybody at a&t "verify" (not speculate) that eaves could successfully coach championship caliber teams (at any level from high school/aau on up)? think about it? cuz i don't think he's ever done that and i think that's important. and, i'm not talking about as an assistant. some of the coaches you're referring to would not meet the requirements to be a college coach and its "very easy" to weed those guys out. even i could do that! a good ad should have a list of requirements that a coaching candidate must meet. by the time he/she goes thru all of those requirements, bad coaches wouldn't even make the first cut. i hate to keep repeating myself, but everything you need in a college coach can be "verified" before you hire them. i mean, the reason hampton chose david six is because he had a long track record of success at the high school and aau levels. same for moton. its very easy to weed out the kind of coaches you're talking about. most of them never played high school or college basketball in their entire lives, that alone disqualifies them immediately in my book. besides, i'm not just talking about "local" high school and aau coaches. there's plenty of very good highly qualified coaches across the states of virginia, north carolina, and south carolina to choose from. not to mention dc and maryland too. so to answer your question, its hard for me to imagine anyone failing to meet decks 2nd criteria of scheduling guaranteed money games. however, the ad would have to do his homework regarding the other two, but those attributes aren't hard to verify. i honestly don't see what the big deal is if you've got a competent ad. he should have a long list criteria that our next coach should meet and spend the next couple of months narrowing down a bunch candidates that on paper meet that criteria. once you've narrowed your list to about 10 candidates, then that's when the hard work starts. bring 'em in for interviews, "thoroughly" check their references, check your references, check their track record, verify their track record. narrow that list down to about 5 candidates, put 'em through another interview, get second and third opinions, etc. get my drift? if ya do a thorough job of the search and hiring process, the risk will be very low of hiring an inadequate coach...
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 6, 2012 12:26:54 GMT -5
No we cant! Which is why finding a basketball coach aint as easy as just finding someone who can "coach". He has to do the other 2 or 3 things well also. Most importantly, know the situation he is about to come into and embrace it. all of that stuff can be "verified". who ever said all ya had to do was find someone who can just coach? who said that? ain't nothing decks listed that can't be verified except maybe scheduling money games. but hail, doesn't the ad make out the schedules? "nobody" in the meac seems to have trouble scheduling money games. what's so hard about that? major d1's love playing hbcu's because they figure its an automatic win. it ain't like we've got to beg them to play us. everything else decks listed can be confirmed. the ad should know ahead of time if the candidates meets that criteria. what's so hard about it, monster? is it hard to determine if a coach can do all of those things? i say its not if you're willing to put the work in...
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Post by ohsixrain on Jan 6, 2012 12:53:02 GMT -5
oleschool...i thought the very same thing when it was explained to me. how hard is it to get carolina, duke, wake forest, michigan, texas, ucla, florida and uconn to beat our pants off for a couple of g's. it isn't that simple...it's the relationships that he's built with these teams. you see we always play akron, and they pay well too, eaves has a connect with someone in that program. and TRUST me...it's more than just asking..."will you play us and pay us too?"
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Jan 6, 2012 12:58:20 GMT -5
While folks are pondering how hard it'll be to find a suitable replacement, we're currently struggling to beat an NAIA Bible college at home; we're losing to Campbell by 30, we're losing by 40 points to St Mary's, we're losing to Central by 20.....
I agree with OSA - it is harder to find a quality football coach. Furthermore, A&T's football program was in much greater shambles than the basketball program.
We went from Alonzo Lee to Rod Broadway -----> ADVANTAGE AGGIES. By removing Eaves and finding a suitable replacement -----> ADVANTAGE AGGIES.
I don't see how folks can advocate for this man. They must not be going to the games. You cannot sit through some of the games I've seen us play and leave it thinking we're headed in the right direction. There's no way.
A lot of Aggie Nation has begun to accept losing in basketball. I sure as hell won't. I've been buying season tickets ever since I moved back to the Triad area. If he's there next year, I won't be. An Eaves-led basketball team gives me as much hope for the future as a Fobbs-led football team did years ago.
I cannot stomach this isht any longer......
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 6, 2012 12:59:10 GMT -5
Again, What are we really debating here? Can Eaves coach? I think everyone here is FINALLY in one voice on that. Except maybe Professor, but I'm still waiting for him to give an explanation on why he keeps defending him.
Next would be the new coach. To me everyone here is saying pretty much the same thing. There are about 3 or 4 criterias and the new coach should have them.
The last thing and the only thing everyone is disagreeing about is how much you need to spend on that coach. Some are saying you can pay the new coach exactly what we are paying Eaves and get much better results if those criterias I mentioned above are met. Some are saying we must go higher than that to get a quality coach. At around what Eaves is making I think we can find that coach.
Man, can yall imagine what next year will be like for this board AND Eaves if he is still around, LOL. Hilton will have a decision to make at the end of the season that's for sure because this aint going away. Each MEAC thrashing is going to turn the heat up and each MEAC win will just be "well, they suck anyway". He is in a no-win and so are we if he stays past this season.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 6, 2012 13:22:46 GMT -5
oleschool...i thought the very same thing when it was explained to me. how hard is it to get carolina, duke, wake forest, michigan, texas, ucla, florida and uconn to beat our pants off for a couple of g's. it isn't that simple...it's the relationships that he's built with these teams. you see we always play akron, and they pay well too, eaves has a connect with someone in that program. and TRUST me...it's more than just asking..."will you play us and pay us too?" i hear what you're saying, ohsixrain. but at most schools, it's the ad's responsibility to schedule games. nonetheless, if everybody else in the meac can schedule them, why can't we without the help of eaves? i mean, central made a living on money games before they became eligible for meac competition, they hardly played any games at home. wssu did exactly the same thing the first year they left the ciaa, does collins have the same clout as eaves? and i've seen coppin go on the road for about 10 straight money games in the past. i don't see any shortage of money games at other meac schools, or even swac schools for that matter. so just how hard can it be? maybe its not as simple as asking. but again, i don't see any meac schools that have a shortage of money games on their schedule and they all did it without eaves help. so why can't we? besides, ain't it the ad's job to setup the schedules with assistance from the coach? or does a&t work the other way around? if we work the other way around, it wouldn't surprise me. that ain't the only thing we do that's azz backwards!
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 6, 2012 13:47:11 GMT -5
Straight from the 2007 contract:
Game Guarantees and Program Funding Coach explicitly agrees to generate revenue for the benefit of the university from game guarantees in an amount not less than $275,000 for each basketball season for the term of the contract. Any income generated over $275,000 will be divided as follows: fifty - fifty between overall athletics and men's basketball.
I shortened the last sentence. But long story short. Yes he is the one responsible according to this. Is that a$$ backwards? I have no idea because I always thought AD's did the scheduling also.
The question is how much does he actually make? Does he get just over the $275K OR is he Waaaaaay over and that's why we(administration) loves him? I've also heard rumors that he has gotten screwed out of his 50% several times. Say he makes $375K, so they owe men's b-ball $50K. I've heard they've taken it and used it somewhere else a few times? If thats the case that sucks. Maybe they keeping him around cause of the broken promises? Who knows!?
Is there any way to find out how much he has brought in each year?
On a side note. On this contract he could have been bought out for $40K after year 2. If his current contract has that clause he is good as out of here after the season in my opinion.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 6, 2012 14:38:57 GMT -5
Got to find out stuff your self around here!
Statement from chancelor in 2010. "He has brought in $2,089,500 to the Athletics Department by playing guarantee games over the past six years. "
That's an average of about $335K per season. He's about $58K over his quota every year. Should be an extra $29K for bball and a extra $29K for the rest of athletics. Not sure what all that means, but those are the numbers.
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Post by thefriscotxaggie on Jan 6, 2012 14:56:45 GMT -5
If Eaves in fact has the ability to negotiate a better guarantee game contract I would guess that it comes from his name in the industry and I am sure he knows lots of people in college b-ball. This is just a guess but I am still of the camp that this takes no special skill. Coppin hits the road each year and as stated earlier all MEAC schools except Hampton do the same. So would a Big 10 school pay Coppin less than us for a guarantee game ?
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 6, 2012 15:02:45 GMT -5
If Eaves in fact has the ability to negotiate a better guarantee game contract I would guess that it comes from his name in the industry and I am sure he knows lots of people in college b-ball. This is just a guess but I am still of the camp that this takes no special skill. Coppin hits the road each year and as stated earlier all MEAC schools except Hampton do the same. So would a Big 10 school pay Coppin less than us for a guarantee game ? Everything is negotiable. But I'm sure there is a "industry standard" on how much you pay someone based on how far they are traveling.
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Post by ohsixrain on Jan 6, 2012 15:13:58 GMT -5
Well...again, I thought is was quite simple. Just make a few phone calls to Duke, UNC, Wake and NC State and you are half-way home. Truth of the matter is...they don't pay out as much as the schools we've played out of state. For example...Akron pays us more than UNC would pay us. Also, Eaves didn't want his teams getting beat down like that to another in-state school...his theory was, he would never be able to recruit the state. Not sure that he does anyway.
But Monster's correct...there were times he came into the office pissed because we had to shut his purchases down for the basketball program when he was promised money for his game guarantees...only to give the $$ to Fobbs and the football program. Go figure...
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Jan 6, 2012 15:17:04 GMT -5
Got to find out stuff your self around here! Statement from chancelor in 2010. "He has brought in $2,089,500 to the Athletics Department by playing guarantee games over the past six years. " That's an average of about $335K per season. He's about $58K over his quota every year. Should be an extra $29K for bball and a extra $29K for the rest of athletics. Not sure what all that means, but those are the numbers. His last contract extension in 2010 requires him to raise $325,000 per year.
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