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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 11, 2008 8:14:09 GMT -5
"3. Go to all of the State games and aau tournaments in the area. I go to several and I've never seen Eaves or Keyes there. Never." Thats impossible, no one does that! I've seen them out and about here in the Triangle. AAU is everywhere dawg, not just where you are. They have the perfect opportunity to see some kids Saturday because the MEAC is in Raleigh and so is the State Championships for bball. It's very easy my friend to go to all of the State games/aau tournaments in the triad. People do it every year. And if you've been out there like you're supposed to, then when April/May hits, you already have a list of at least 20-30 kids that you should at least "see". You talk to their high school coaches and get schedules (like for Raleigh and Charlotte tourneys). That way, you don't have to go to all of them outside of your area. Maybe, somehow, their aau coach finds a way to work one of your camps. This is how it works man. I rub your back and maybe when you have a decent player in 1-2 years, you'll give me a call. I would have a game in December in Atlanta every year just to have travel paid for when I want to look at the local talent. That way, you don't have to count it against the budget. No MEAC school is in the area and you can establish yourself. So when I say 5K and a gas card, I also mean you have to use alternative means to get out there. Use your schedule. Use the telephone. Use homecoming. Do something. Get 1-2 really decent players every year and win!
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aggie75
Official BDF member
BDV
Posts: 255
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Post by aggie75 on Mar 11, 2008 18:38:23 GMT -5
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 11, 2008 19:15:17 GMT -5
Yeah, that's old news. It actually gets a lot deeper than that. But that is, primarily, for the big recruits. That won't affect the players that T has to recruit.
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Aggie77
Official BDF member
Member Since: September 2004
Posts: 5,572
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 12, 2008 5:35:36 GMT -5
For #1. You are right. You can't actively recruit players in other progams. But you have to have a wide network of high school coaches that will consult with you. When a player is unhappy and wants to leave, the first person they call is normally their high school coach. Where do you mix it up with these coaches? AAU and state game tourneys (#3). Every kid that leaves the area should be kept up with. That will take effort, but it should be done. I'm sure we'll have to get into this a little more. lol
When you say "kept up with", what does that mean, is that a human resource that tracks, minutes played, points, grades, is their a happiness scale also etc. of "every" player that leaves the area? Is this the same person that keeps up with the high schoolers?
For #2. This is just a difference in philosophy. But I'll ask you this. Think of the top 8 teams in the nation and think about how many JUCO players are on those teams. EXACTLY, they destroy your program, especially in the MEAC (because we attract lesser talent). There are very few JUCOs that have come to the MEAC and stood out. We haven't had any at T for at least the last 6-8 years (that really made a difference). Maybe more.
Lets look at the top 8 Basketball budgets and see if they need to recruit JUCOs when they can select from the top 10% of the players in the world.
1.) UNC - $5,632,518 2.) Memphis - $1,023,198 3.) UCLA - $5,262,775 4.) Tenn - $3,611,347 5.) Kansas - $ 6,170,233 6.) Texas - $ 6,594,163 7.) Duke - $ 8,010,066 8.) Wisconsin - $ 5,315,234
n/a) NCA&T - $695,021
that's 271 out 339 schools, yeah that $5k and a gas card looks better all the time. I don't believe that Memphis number, I would think Calipari is making a $mil alone.
For #3. I've touched on this a bit, but this is what happens when you show up at a showcase late or you don't come at all. People ask about you (like other MEAC coaches for instance) to see where the competition is. When they talk to the high school coaches, they ask questions like "Have you seen a rep from A&T, I need to ask him something" you know, just to point out that you're not there. It's called "Positioning", you position yourself in that high school coach's mind...above the guy that's so interested in his players, that he decided not to show up. Common sales tactic. I could write a thesis on this mistake that our coaches make.
Apparently, you have inside information or a GPS tracker on Coach Eaves and staff to know where they are at all times, and it must have a microphone, because you appear to know who he is talking to.
For #5. I'm not saying hire a consultant. I'm saying work an NBA camp over the summer or something. A tremendous resource is the NBDL team. Speak to their trainers. Learn. Learn. Learn. When should they work out? How many times a week? What kinds of work outs should my rebounders have? You have to work to be connected.
Here again you must have inside info, because you state this as a fact that this hasn't been done.
That's what I mean when I say they are not working. If you spend ANY time around the basketball community, you will find these things to be true. Many people look at our staff as a joke. Their performance doesn't do much to discredit that. Sorry for the long post, but I love the topic.
I don't disagree that this year's performance was a joke (especially with a veteran squad) and that a lot a work needs to be done, I don't even disagree that Coach Eaves may not be the one. I completely agree that relationships are a vital key to our success, but totally disagree that $5000 and gas card is all that is needed.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Mar 12, 2008 7:13:37 GMT -5
Are you kidding me! Once again, just because you're not there doesn't mean its not going on. To make EVERY AAU tournament means you either dont have a job or you dont do anything else in life. AAU tournaments go on during the week(during the day), all day Saturdays, and for most of the summer. The Triad is also not AAU Mecca. Its a lot more "Big Time" tournaments going on at the same time as those in the Triad. sheeet, the Triad players opt out of the ones locally to go to the others.
I'm with Aggie77, some of your statements are waaaay to the left. Some make sense but others have no substance.
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 12, 2008 7:26:56 GMT -5
For #1. You are right. You can't actively recruit players in other progams. But you have to have a wide network of high school coaches that will consult with you. When a player is unhappy and wants to leave, the first person they call is normally their high school coach. Where do you mix it up with these coaches? AAU and state game tourneys (#3). Every kid that leaves the area should be kept up with. That will take effort, but it should be done. I'm sure we'll have to get into this a little more. lol When you say "kept up with", what does that mean, is that a human resource that tracks, minutes played, points, grades, is their a happiness scale also etc. of "every" player that leaves the area? Is this the same person that keeps up with the high schoolers?For #2. This is just a difference in philosophy. But I'll ask you this. Think of the top 8 teams in the nation and think about how many JUCO players are on those teams. EXACTLY, they destroy your program, especially in the MEAC (because we attract lesser talent). There are very few JUCOs that have come to the MEAC and stood out. We haven't had any at T for at least the last 6-8 years (that really made a difference). Maybe more. Lets look at the top 8 Basketball budgets and see if they need to recruit JUCOs when they can select from the top 10% of the players in the world.
1.) UNC - $5,632,518 2.) Memphis - $1,023,198 3.) UCLA - $5,262,775 4.) Tenn - $3,611,347 5.) Kansas - $ 6,170,233 6.) Texas - $ 6,594,163 7.) Duke - $ 8,010,066 8.) Wisconsin - $ 5,315,234
n/a) NCA&T - $695,021
that's 271 out 339 schools, yeah that $5k and a gas card looks better all the time. I don't believe that Memphis number, I would think Calipari is making a $mil alone.For #3. I've touched on this a bit, but this is what happens when you show up at a showcase late or you don't come at all. People ask about you (like other MEAC coaches for instance) to see where the competition is. When they talk to the high school coaches, they ask questions like "Have you seen a rep from A&T, I need to ask him something" you know, just to point out that you're not there. It's called "Positioning", you position yourself in that high school coach's mind...above the guy that's so interested in his players, that he decided not to show up. Common sales tactic. I could write a thesis on this mistake that our coaches make. Apparently, you have inside information or a GPS tracker on Coach Eaves and staff to know where they are at all times, and it must have a microphone, because you appear to know who he is talking to.For #5. I'm not saying hire a consultant. I'm saying work an NBA camp over the summer or something. A tremendous resource is the NBDL team. Speak to their trainers. Learn. Learn. Learn. When should they work out? How many times a week? What kinds of work outs should my rebounders have? You have to work to be connected. Here again you must have inside info, because you state this as a fact that this hasn't been done. That's what I mean when I say they are not working. If you spend ANY time around the basketball community, you will find these things to be true. Many people look at our staff as a joke. Their performance doesn't do much to discredit that. Sorry for the long post, but I love the topic. I don't disagree that this year's performance was a joke (especially with a veteran squad) and that a lot a work needs to be done, I don't even disagree that Coach Eaves may not be the one. I completely agree that relationships are a vital key to our success, but totally disagree that $5000 and gas card is all that is needed.Great Post 1. "Kept up with" means calling coaches and asking questions. Keyes can do that. I was close to coach Pope who was an assistant to Coach Thomas at T. He had 2 photo albums full of business cards. Everyday, he spends 30 minutes calling people about players, keeping in touch etc, from these books. He went from A&T and is now a scout with the Pistons! He works, works, works. It doesn't take a "resource". It takes some get up off your @ss about yourself. 2. Good point, they all have big budgets and can afford to look past the JUCOS. So where are all of the JUCOs going? If they are good talents, they go to good, big schools. If they're mediocre, they can probably be found destroying a program near you. Once again, there haven't been any JUCOs to come to the MEAC and stand out, at least that I can remember. 3. On the aau thing....no comment. No GPS with a microphone, lol. I'll say this though. When you're the joke, people don't mind talking about you. 4. Respect your disagreement. You like facts and that is understandable. I don't know where you got your figure, but let's use it anyway. It's my opinion that anyone who is anywhere near satisfied with the return on that 700K basketball budget...is probably smoking crack cocaine. You may disagree, but you won't find many people on your side of the argument. Nickelberry, 2nd year, far more talent. Bozeman, 2 year, far more talent (after having none last year) Jackson, 5th year, more talent and far more achievements Eaves, 5-6th year, nothing more than NOT going 1-27.....and still has supporters. Same thing every year. (years are off memory, please don't bash me on that, lol) Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Welcome to A&T's recruiting philosophy.
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Post by numberonebrave on Mar 12, 2008 14:48:14 GMT -5
Bozeman, 2 year, far more talent (after having none last year) Once again, there haven't been any JUCOs to come to the MEAC and stand out, at least that I can remember. ....I do not understand these statements Morgan State's Jarmar Smith came San Bernadino juco. He is the MEAC player of the year He was on the team, last year as were the 2 D-1 transfers you identified. Morgan ( according their press guide had the core of their team returning this season. )They had talent last year. Roy Bright of DSU is a juco transfer...Brian Greene FAMU was a juco transfer. He was the TOURNAMENT MVP last year. Brian Greene
Class: Senior Hometown: Jacksonville, FL High School: Ribault HS Last College: Sante Fe CC Height / Weight: 6-5 / 210 The 2nd best player at DSU this year is a juco player........ Position: G Donald Johnson # 32 Guard - G Height: 6-4 Weight: 180 Junior Previous Schools Prince George (Billy Russell) Allegany College of Maryland (Mike Baker) Hometown Prince George, VA Prince George, VA
The only player of note at Hampton that is a juco player is Harrison 6-9, but they do not have a D-1 player of note either...Freeman went to prep school
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Post by aggie82 on Mar 12, 2008 15:00:06 GMT -5
i have enjoyed reading this thread...i have a son who is a 9th grader and wants to play college ball; at what level, i dont know....he's 5-11 point guard, a very good shooter, a 4.0 student, can dunk the ball, and is a student of the game; he's not a household name yet here in the boro, but should be by next year...
i can say that coach key has put us on the list, and we have attended as many games as our schedule permits....he even came to one of our games.....i saw some of the names on his list for will call....he's invited PJ from Dudley, and I saw him at one of the home games...
my son looks at a&t as a school that he would play for, but obviously it is not his first option...but i can honestly say it has more to do with going to Homecoming the last 7-8 years than it has watching the aggies basketball team play...
in short, we all have a part to play....my son plays on an aau team in charlotte that i help coach; we have a 5-10 point guard that is being recruited by a few ACC schools already...we have 3 kids 6-5 or better, and 4 guards that i believe will play college ball...
i plan to meet with coach Key next week and give him our roster, schedule, etc....we'll see what happens from there...
it's just hard to get good players when other schools have more to offer, but to me it seems like we dont really have a recruiting philosophy; what i mean by that is, "What type of kid really comes to A&T to play ball? In my humble opinion, it looks like we want a kid to turn down a bigger school to come to A&T....and i tell you it will never work, because first of all, Eaves doesnt like to play Freshmen....so if a kid is good comes here and doesnt get to play, then what...
in this new age, kids want to play right away....and they are looking for that opportunity ...nobody wants to wait 2 years to get on the floor, especially not at A&T...
I hear there is already some grumbling in the Tavaras Alston camp with the new freshman coming in; and rightfullly so, he deserves to be the point guard for the next two years; but what did Coach Eaves "promise" (excuse me ) tell Marc Hill from Maryland? Only time will tell....
in the final analysis, we have to work smarter, not harder...there are only 24 hours in a day....
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 12, 2008 17:26:36 GMT -5
aahhbigboy... a long time ago i had similar thoughts 3k & recruit nc exclusively but after many conversations with a variety of coaches this question always would come up... why limit what your coaching staff can do when others are not... so many of our programs operate on 3k recruiting budget & still spend money out of their own pocket because 3k is not enough to cover going from one end of nc to the other... to see an example of the effects of a low recruiting budget one only has to look at our baseball program... don't get me wrong... shumate does a yoemans job... but he is basically limited to nc whereas melendez at bcc can recruit globally... melendez knows shumate is a thorne in his side but he also knows the odds are in his favor... because he has access to more players than shumate does... melendez is counting on a&t to handcuff shumate with a small in-state recruiting pool... while his selection pool keeps expanding... he knows if shumate is ever allowed to recruit nationally... his a$$ is in trouble...
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 12, 2008 17:50:25 GMT -5
what i'm saying to you aahhbigboy is why should eaves be handicapped when coach K is not... roy williams is not... but even schools at the mid-major level do not limit their coaches the way you suggest limiting ours... davidson does not... elon does not... high point does not...
why should we limit ourselves to a small pool of players when hampton does not... morgan & boeseman is not... & del st. who spends 150K on recruiting alone... definitely is not...!!!!!!!!!!!!
eaves & his staff are doing a yoemans job... bball is competitave once again & with increased resources it can only get better... i like what these coaches have done & they get no help... but then again i know what corbett did with no help... & besides mens bball makes a profit...!!!
if you know of a monster ball player then let the coaches know... you talk about all these kids you have seen & you talk about our coaches not networking... but the best networking is an aggie out their looking out & letting the coaches know about a monster recruit who has not signed with anyone...
aahhbigboy... i'm not very smart... but what i know... i know... & my eyes don't fail me much either...
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 12, 2008 17:55:37 GMT -5
one theory i don't agree with is the 7-8 player rule like it's written in stone that this is a magical # coaches should abide by... my ? is... if you have 10 players of equal talent why should only 7 or 8 play when you have a whole bench that can contribute...
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 12, 2008 18:00:14 GMT -5
aggie82... you say there is concearn in the alston camp... from what i h'm hearing alston is the heir apparent... but one word of caution... the way you get better as a team is to recruit kids who are going to push the kids already in the program...
if the kids in the program want to start... hone your skills well during the off season...!!!!!!!!
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 12, 2008 18:22:09 GMT -5
aahhbigboy when i look at our roster i see alston from g'boro... johnson from g'boro... rush from g'boro... webster from durham... porter from raleigh... chaplin from chapel hill... jones from virginia... ewing from georgia... wills & glenn from md.... gregg from sc... thomas from ky... hernandez from pa... a small recruiting budget at work...
if i were a top recruit from g'boro & was looking for a place to actually play... i'd be calling eaves... because there is nothing wrong with our basketball program & the kids who do laugh at us don't deserve to be here in the 1st place... because from what i see... if you can play & i mean really.. really play... you will get playing time here...!!!!
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 12, 2008 18:41:21 GMT -5
aahhbigboy... you talk about recruiting star talent from nc... since our move to d-1 the last true superstar to come this way was joe binion & he was from ny.... james "the bird" sparrow was from ny... in fact most of cal irvins star players were from up north... so when did nc get to be a great hot bed for bball talent...
i see alot of kids... some may think they're d-1 talent but they're not... i've gone to showcases & if you see a kid you really like he doesn't have the grades... which explains why he's at a showcase to begin with... the kid thinks that d-1 schools are over looking him but the 1st thing a coach is going to look at are the kids grades before they say 1 word to the kid or his parents...
another thing... on coaches attending every aau tourny... alot of these tournys are doing the dead period when coaches can't attend because of ncaa rules... which is where i step in or others who look at kids for our school... the state east-west games in greensboro are off limits to college coaches for football & basketball... so if you have never seen an a&t coach there... this is why... but i'm there... most of the time... & so are others...
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 12, 2008 22:06:38 GMT -5
Bozeman, 2 year, far more talent (after having none last year) Once again, there haven't been any JUCOs to come to the MEAC and stand out, at least that I can remember. ....I do not understand these statements Morgan State's Jarmar Smith came San Bernadino juco. He is the MEAC player of the year He was on the team, last year as were the 2 D-1 transfers you identified. Morgan ( according their press guide had the core of their team returning this season. )They had talent last year. Roy Bright of DSU is a juco transfer...Brian Greene FAMU was a juco transfer. He was the TOURNAMENT MVP last year. Brian Greene Class: Senior Hometown: Jacksonville, FL High School: Ribault HS Last College: Sante Fe CC Height / Weight: 6-5 / 210 The 2nd best player at DSU this year is a juco player........ Position: G Donald Johnson # 32 Guard - G Height: 6-4 Weight: 180 Junior Previous Schools Prince George (Billy Russell) Allegany College of Maryland (Mike Baker) Hometown Prince George, VA Prince George, VA The only player of note at Hampton that is a juco player is Harrison 6-9, but they do not have a D-1 player of note either...Freeman went to prep school This post can't be ignored. If it's true (hadn't verified, just love the discussion) that would mean that the last 2 would be MEAC POY's. I guess that strategy worked for them. Like I've said, I guess this is just a difference in philosophy, but with the examples you've given, maybe I shouldn't be so closed minded in this area. I'm no ego maniac so I can admit that this flies directly into the face of what I believe. It's just that I've seen it hurt more than help though. Important to note that Del needed Bright to go to JUCO before arriving at Del, because they didn't know what was going to happen to him (he fired a gun on campus at Cincy). Good info man.
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