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Post by numberonebrave on Mar 10, 2008 9:31:31 GMT -5
Please identify the players at Morgan and Hampton that transferred dircetly from other D-1 programs to the schools and sat out a year. Freeman ( a stud at HU ) signed w/ UCLA or USC BUT THEN WENT TO PREP SCHOOL before he signed w/ Hampton. They have a 6-8 juco player as well, but not a D-1 transfer.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 10, 2008 10:27:57 GMT -5
It’s this type of comment that loses credibility points, because it implies that you think the basketball program gets to keep the revenue for money games. It loses no credibility points for my argument. I'm saying they can do 5 times better with less money than they get now. It doesn't matter if they get to keep all of it or not. The point is you don't know what they get now, making your comment completely unsupported in any rational discussion. If you think $5,000 and gas card is sufficient, what is that based on, last year's dept expenses, your recruiting experience, or from tea leaves. You lose credibility points because of the defective foundation of your logic and the obvious lack of knowledge of the facts. Resulting in just continual unfetter fan rhetoric. But your point is they can do more with less. Less than what?
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 10, 2008 11:25:45 GMT -5
It loses no credibility points for my argument. I'm saying they can do 5 times better with less money than they get now. It doesn't matter if they get to keep all of it or not. The point is you don't know what they get now, making your comment completely unsupported in any rational discussion. If you think $5,000 and gas card is sufficient, what is that based on, last year's dept expenses, your recruiting experience, or from tea leaves. You lose credibility points because of the defective foundation of your logic and the obvious lack of knowledge of the facts. Resulting in just continual unfetter fan rhetoric. But your point is they can do more with less. Less than what? First of all, I'm not a fan-(atic). And I admit, I failed to subpoena all of Eaves financial statements before I made a post on a message board, god forbid. But, if the recruiting budget is more than $3000 a year, then I stand by everything I've said thus far. If I tell you the budgets, then meetings get called because "in house" matters are being leaked, so that's not important. Furthermore, the point doesn't have to be based on anything. 2-5 of the things I listed in an earlier post on this thread, require NO MONEY AT ALL. So, what's so defective about that foundation of logic? If you really read what I'm saying, then your post (although so eloquently written) wouldn't, in turn, be so stupid. I can't even say I respect your opinion. You have yet to give one.
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Mar 10, 2008 11:32:38 GMT -5
Please identify the players at Morgan and Hampton that transferred dircetly from other D-1 programs to the schools and sat out a year. Freeman ( a stud at HU ) signed w/ UCLA or USC BUT THEN WENT TO PREP SCHOOL before he signed w/ Hampton. They have a 6-8 juco player as well, but not a D-1 transfer. Morgans Marquise Kately transferred from Cal. where he actually started as a freshman & Boubcar Coly transferred from Xavier.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 10, 2008 12:19:03 GMT -5
The point is you don't know what they get now, making your comment completely unsupported in any rational discussion. If you think $5,000 and gas card is sufficient, what is that based on, last year's dept expenses, your recruiting experience, or from tea leaves. You lose credibility points because of the defective foundation of your logic and the obvious lack of knowledge of the facts. Resulting in just continual unfetter fan rhetoric. But your point is they can do more with less. Less than what? First of all, I'm not a fan-(atic). And I admit, I failed to subpoena all of Eaves financial statements before I made a post on a message board, god forbid. But, if the recruiting budget is more than $3000 a year, then I stand by everything I've said thus far. If I tell you the budgets, then meetings get called because "in house" matters are being leaked, so that's not important. Furthermore, the point doesn't have to be based on anything. 2-5 of the things I listed in an earlier post on this thread, require NO MONEY AT ALL. So, what's so defective about that foundation of logic? If you really read what I'm saying, then your post (although so eloquently written) wouldn't, in turn, be so stupid. I can't even say I respect your opinion. You have yet to give one. Though my post may be stupid in your mind, that's just another example of flawed logic, because of your mistaken belief that your that opinion is a criteria for my posts. My experience is that people generally result to that language when they are unable to effectively defend a weak position. I didn't completely disagree with items 1-5, but the subsequent statements used to support them. Please review the statements below and tell if they add or subtract from the credibility of the author. - The "money" games that they play is more than enough. (Their budget isn't based on the money games, but yet you continue to defend this statement) - I'm saying they can do 5 times better with less money than they get now. (pure rhetoric, in your mind the point doesn't have to have a basis ) ;D - The point doesn't have to be based on anything (and you called my post stupid, please expand on this thought)
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 10, 2008 12:58:15 GMT -5
I see this amuses you. You think that you are brilliant, but you are outsmarting yourself. This should be real simple for you to understand, and hopefully, after this time I will have passed your pshychiatric evaluation. lol
I never said that the money games went to the recruiting budget, so I don't have (and haven't been) to defend the point. The teams play, they don't handle the money and I get that. It can be going to Fobbs for all I know, who cares.
When I mentioned that the point doesn't have to be based on anything, I was referring to any kind of discussions that you referenced. Not "anything" literally.
Listen Aggie77, I'm sorry I didn't provide footnotes for everyone of my comments, I didn't see anyone else doing it up here so I didn't know the rules. I'm anxious to know how I did with your test though. Just pm my account with the score, I'm pretty sure every one else is getting sick of this.
Now, back to the thread...
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 10, 2008 13:56:08 GMT -5
uuhhbigboy, I was kinda hoping you'd actually answer a couple of his questions because I thought they were pretty good ones. Get your head out of the sand and let us know. Your suggestions appear good but without actual facts, who knows?
Example: My momma (rip) called me up one time and told me that she watched us play FAMU and we looked very tired. So obviously, we must’ve ridden the bus down there. I contacted then-a.d. Scandrett to ask him how we could fund flying the team down there next time around. He informed me that they did fly down. Whoops.
Likewise, if the budget is 38 bucks, the guys are already attempting to recruit the way you suggested, or we actually already have a real strength and conditioning program, then we have whoops. Of course the standard response to this post will be “if you want to know look it up yourself.” I’m hoping for something better than the standard.
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 10, 2008 14:47:33 GMT -5
Very understandable Dooms, but one thing that I am pointing out is that some of the points I've mentioned are not being done (by the coaching staff). It's like your kid telling you they just took a shower, but the soap is dry.
I or somebody I know (in the highschool coaching community) are at almost every single aau/state games tournament in the state. The guys aren't there. That's one thing I know.
Everyone has a strength and conditioning "program", but ours doesn't appear to be working or isn't being applied correctly. All I'm saying is contact someone you know in your profession and get something on paper that's working for them.
I'll take a whoops Dooms. I'd love to stand corrected. But if I could be, I would have been by now. I'd like for someone to say, look man, you sound stupid, the budget is only $1500 and they are doing the best they can do. If that's the case, there shouldn't be a bad post about Eaves anywhere on the net. We all think we know different things, but I know I am being super reasonable with a 3k-5K budget. Plus, this is not a private board. Most of the time, I intentionally talk in generalities. I think everyone does on the public board.
I do understand you Dooms, but if I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong. Is 3-5K and a gas card (with a limit of course) unreasonable? Or is my foundational thought process flawed?
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 10, 2008 15:11:47 GMT -5
Naw, it makes absolute sense to me. I’m just playing devil’s advocate more than anything. I agree with everything you’ve said, but I also know I don’t know too much about basketball. I do know we’ve looked like a train wreck the few times I’ve seen us. But on the other hand we looked far worse under thick and thin socks. One thing I learned from all my complaining about Hayes was that if I had looked at what he was working with instead of believing the lies I was told by a certain individual who now works in DC about what he was working with I’d have shut the hell up. Honestly, Eaves’ style ain’t my cup of tea. But he ain’t go to Princeton so what would he look like running that slow down offense?
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 10, 2008 19:15:44 GMT -5
You taking a very defensive posture on your positions and I'm just trying to understand, so I went back and re-read your Points 1-5 and here are my "stupid" thoughts on them.
1. Focus on 3 studs every year (Major D-1 transfers and High school kids only). Even if 1 signs, you greatly increase your chances of winning in the MEAC.
Focus on them how, that wouldn’t impact the budget or violated NCAA rules. You have to recruit them up front in order for them to contact us. Any contact initiated by us would be considered tampering, wouldn’t? This is hit or miss just like the JUCO route. If a dude wants to leave, what the reason? So, I'm not sure you can justify the no cost impact, or the cost benefit of “focus” on D-1 talent over high schoolers or JUCOs.
2. Leave the JUCO kids alone. They only give you 2 years and if they are coming to MEAC, chances are they are still developing.
How is this different any number one, except that in Item #1 there’s an extra year of eligibility. Most people argue 1.) JUCO get more playing time therefore are more developed than a non playing freshman, 2.) a significant number of players are at JUCOs for more so for grades than talent. So I disagree your JUCO basis. You advocate a complete band on JUCOs. That just doesn't make sense.
3. Go to all of the State games and aau tournaments in the area. I go to several and I've never seen Eaves or Keyes there. Never.
What is the area, Greensboro, Triad, Piedmont, the State? The use of the word “all” is a problem. That would be an unreasonable request. Did you see them in Hickory this past weekend? Just maybe they were preparing for Del State, or visiting recruits no longer in the state tourney, or any number of basketball or personal issues. Just because you don’t see them doesn’t mean that positive action isn’t happening, does it? Plus any increase in travel not included in the budget is unfunded, or maybe the money should come out of their own pocketsto fund “All” these excursions around the “area”. Heaven forbid Alums get off there wallets.
4 . Stop playing so many people. You can't consistently play 11-12 people a game and expect any kind of continuity. Furthermore, the kids lack confidence because they are not allowed to play through their mistakes without looking over their shoulder.
Wow! I found one that I actually agree 100% with. I think Coach is his own worst enemy, with his player rotation, and his in game teaching and stubbornness in regards to players in the doghouse. But surely you will agree that this year’s team didn’t take on Coach’s personality, there was no fire there all season.
5. Consult with someone and get a REAL strength and conditioning program. Our players (especially the frontcourt) always seem to look weak compared to other teams.
I’m not sure how you consider this a no cost impact to the program, please explain.
Are saying that $3-$5K and a gas card, is all the Mens Basketball Program needs to recruit better players.
. . . and DOOMS was that what you are agreeing to or maybe I need remedial training in Athletics 101?
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 10, 2008 21:00:57 GMT -5
You taking a very defensive posture on your positions and I'm just trying to understand, so I went back and re-read your Points 1-5 and here are my "stupid" thoughts on them. 1. Focus on 3 studs every year (Major D-1 transfers and High school kids only). Even if 1 signs, you greatly increase your chances of winning in the MEAC. Focus on them how, that wouldn’t impact the budget or violated NCAA rules. You have to recruit them up front in order for them to contact us. Any contact initiated by us would be considered tampering, wouldn’t? This is hit or miss just like the JUCO route. If a dude wants to leave, what the reason? So, I not sure you can justify the no cost impact, or the cost benefit of “focus” on D-1 talent over high schoolers or JUCOs.2. Leave the JUCO kids alone. They only give you 2 years and if they are coming to MEAC, chances are they are still developing. How is this different any number one, except that in Item #1 there’s an extra year of eligibility. Most people argue 1.) JUCO get more playing time therefore are more develop than a non playing freshman, 2.) a significant number of players are at JUCOs for more so for grades than talent. So I disagree your JUCO basis. You advocate a complete band on JUCOs. That just doesn't sense.3. Go to all of the State games and aau tournaments in the area. I go to several and I've never seen Eaves or Keyes there. Never. What is the area, Greensboro, Triad, Piedmont, the State? The use of the word “all” is a problem. That would be an unreasonable request. Did you see them in Hickory this past weekend? Just maybe they were preparing for Del State, or visiting recruits no longer in the state tourney, or any number of basketball or personal issues. Just because you don’t them doesn’t mean that positive action isn’t happening does it? Plus any increase in travel not include in the budget is unfunded, or maybe the money should come out of their own pockets to fund “All” these excursions around the “area”. Heaven forbid Alums get off there wallets. 4 . Stop playing so many people. You can't consistently play 11-12 people a game and expect any kind of continuity. Furthermore, the kids lack confidence because they are not allowed to play through their mistakes without looking over their shoulder. Wow! I found one that I actually agree 100% with. I think Coach is his own worst enemy, with his player rotation, and his in game teaching and stubbornness in regards to players in the dog house. But usually you agree this year’s team didn’t take on Coach’s personality, there was no fire there all season. 5. Consult with someone and get a REAL strength and conditioning program. Our players (especially the frontcourt) always seem to look weak compared to other teams. I’m not sure how you consider this a no cost impact to the program, please explain. Are saying that $3-$5K and a gas card, is all the Mens Basketball Program needs to recruit better players. . . . and DOOMS was that what you were agreeing to or maybe I need remedial training in Athletics 101? OK, this is great because this is how ideas come out. For #1. You are right. You can't actively recruit players in other progams. But you have to have a wide network of high school coaches that will consult with you. When a player is unhappy and wants to leave, the first person they call is normally their high school coach. Where do you mix it up with these coaches? AAU and state game tourneys (#3). Every kid that leaves the area should be kept up with. That will take effort, but it should be done. I'm sure we'll have to get into this a little more. lol For #2. This is just a difference in philosophy. But I'll ask you this. Think of the top 8 teams in the nation and think about how many JUCO players are on those teams. EXACTLY, they destroy your program, especially in the MEAC (because we attract lesser talent). There are very few JUCOs that have come to the MEAC and stood out. We haven't had any at T for at least the last 6-8 years (that really made a difference). Maybe more. For #3. I've touched on this a bit, but this is what happens when you show up at a showcase late or you don't come at all. People ask about you (like other MEAC coaches for instance) to see where the competition is. When they talk to the high school coaches, they ask questions like "Have you seen a rep from A&T, I need to ask him something" you know, just to point out that you're not there. It's called "Positioning", you position yourself in that high school coach's mind...above the guy that's so interested in his players, that he decided not to show up. Common sales tactic. I could write a thesis on this mistake that our coaches make. For #5. I'm not saying hire a consultant. I'm saying work an NBA camp over the summer or something. A tremendous resource is the NBDL team. Speak to their trainers. Learn. Learn. Learn. When should they work out? How many times a week? What kinds of work outs should my rebounders have? You have to work to be connected. That's what I mean when I say they are not working. If you spend ANY time around the basketball community, you will find these things to be true. Many people look at our staff as a joke. Their performance doesn't do much to discredit that. Sorry for the long post, but I love the topic.
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Post by aggiejazz on Mar 11, 2008 7:04:22 GMT -5
[ There is a big pool of talent between Virginia and Georgia. $5,000 and a gas card is all you need to win the MEAC. aahhbigboy, I can no longer take you seriously with quotes like that above along with the other quote that "the coaches are not working". I have been around AAU for a very long time pushing A&T name out there and even when the kid is interested, his coach isn't or his parent(s) isn't interested. I have talked to parents who were alumni of A&T who had talented sons playing basketball and their main focus is on the major basketball programs and I don't begrudge them one bit. Its just the way it is for small to mid level programs. I only go to one AAU tournament now, normally the first big one of the season. I used to be able to get all the names and all the contact info in a package provided by the tournament sponsors. Now, some of the AAU coaches are gatekeepers and only release that info to certain college coaches unless they know you. The truth is "recruiting ain't easy", paraphrasing Magic Don Juan.
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 11, 2008 7:17:17 GMT -5
At least tell him why.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Mar 11, 2008 7:33:22 GMT -5
"3. Go to all of the State games and aau tournaments in the area. I go to several and I've never seen Eaves or Keyes there. Never."
Thats impossible, no one does that! I've seen them out and about here in the Triangle. AAU is everywhere dawg, not just where you are.
They have the perfect opportunity to see some kids Saturday because the MEAC is in Raleigh and so is the State Championships for bball.
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Post by aahhbigboy on Mar 11, 2008 8:04:43 GMT -5
[ There is a big pool of talent between Virginia and Georgia. $5,000 and a gas card is all you need to win the MEAC. aahhbigboy, I can no longer take you seriously with quotes like that above along with the other quote that "the coaches are not working". I have been around AAU for a very long time pushing A&T name out there and even when the kid is interested, his coach isn't or his parent(s) isn't interested. I have talked to parents who were alumni of A&T who had talented sons playing basketball and their main focus is on the major basketball programs and I don't begrudge them one bit. Its just the way it is for small to mid level programs. I only go to one AAU tournament now, normally the first big one of the season. I used to be able to get all the names and all the contact info in a package provided by the tournament sponsors. Now, some of the AAU coaches are gatekeepers and only release that info to certain college coaches unless they know you. The truth is "recruiting ain't easy" paraphases Magic Don Juan. Yeah, at least tell me why. I have, in know way, referred to the process as easy. But you've kinda proved my points. There is no way you're gonna get every kid. The parents going to T has nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't want my kid to play for Eaves. And anything that isn't "easy" probably requires work right? So if you don't see results, either you're not working enough, at all, or smart. Either way, it's a failure, and it supports my points. Thanks Jazz.
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