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Post by DOOMS on Mar 16, 2007 7:53:47 GMT -5
I was told that same "look to your left, look to your right" crap my freshman year at A&T.
My first year of law school at Howard I was told "look to your left and look to your right. At least one of those people will need your help to make sure they graduate when you do."
90% of my class at Howard graduated.
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Post by Aggie One on Mar 16, 2007 9:24:43 GMT -5
I looked to my right and to my left and we all graduated.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 16, 2007 9:54:44 GMT -5
I don't see what opportunity we are giving these students, unless it’s the opportunity to fail, or waste their money. The numbers of student that are being admitted now that are ranked in the lower third of their high school, that score less than 800 on the SAT are a significantly higher percentage of the student body than at any time since the founding of the University. I don’t think anyone is opposed admitting students that fall into these academic categories. The problem is the trend line is ascending towards 50%. The University is not equipped to handle the current level of under achievement, how can we expect it to handle an increasing level and that is not its MISSION.
I agree that the students have a responsibility for their college success and failure. However, it is completely unlikely that a student that was a marginal student in high school will miraculously become a good student in college on their own, and if the University knows this (and it does) then how would you characterize the admission of more and more of these type of students and not initiate some type remedial support/academic assistance program to monitor and assist in their progression.
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Post by Gator on Mar 16, 2007 10:33:17 GMT -5
77,
You don't see where opportunity is given, but to only fail. Hummm... what does that say about the 39% that have successed?
Again, me and a whole lot of other folks under achieved in high school for whatever reasons. I truely wanted to attend a white school because I didn't know any better, and it was all I saw on television (Jim Thracker and Billy Packer). I was in the 10th grade and I got my first taste of college life (ECU football). I knew I wanted to attend college but I decided to put off my pursuit of it until the next year (Just wanted to have fun like the others kids). When I looked into the requirements, I was way behind, thank God for summer school. This happened to many of us, even with family members already in college or who have attended and graduated. My point is that it's up to the individual to seek, accept, and properly respond to the information that's being provided.
You are always going to have a number of folks fall through the cracks. Remember, the requirements were much lower back in 1980. Now, a kid has to have trig, or Alg. II and some other courses. In my day, all you had to have was Alg. I, a SAT score of 700, and you were good.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 16, 2007 11:40:29 GMT -5
I’m not concern about the 39% that have successfully achieved a degree. The issue is what we do to reduce the 71% we lose. When did 39% become an acceptable success rate?
You are making my point. The students of the 80’s wouldn’t be successful using Algebra I as a baseline in today’s curriculum either. That's the problem the students we are bringing in have Algebra I as their high water mark. How can you expect a student to come to college and pass higher levels of math with a baseline of success that is Algebra I? I’m using Algebra I as an example, but it applies across the curriculum. If a student didn’t master the written word in high school, how are they going to write a college level essays or compositions? In fact, remedial assistance wouldn’t help because, if you never had it to begin with, there is nothing to remediate. That’s why the current crop of 700 SAT students can’t make it without supplemental resources.
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Post by Maxell on Mar 16, 2007 14:09:51 GMT -5
I looked to my right and to my left and we all graduated. Aggie One and Dooms, You see what we're up against! We're up against a failure mentality by faculty and staff. This has to change. I hope Battle changes it and fires or reassigns whoever wrote and whoever reads that script for freshmen orientation that evidently has been said for at least the last 10 years. Dooms, that's why Howard is rated "selective" by US News and we're not. I pissed now.
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Post by TOPPDOGG on Mar 21, 2007 14:54:07 GMT -5
I graduated from Howard. I can tell you it's not that selective. I graduated summa cum laude without hardly breaking a sweat or opening a book. I encountered a lot of unprepared students at Howard. It's just that Howard has the money to grant scholarships to really qualified students to balance out their classes. A&T cannot convince the more qualified students to attend because it does not have the scholarship money to offer the students. That said there is little difference between the average student at either university.
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Post by captaggie on Mar 21, 2007 17:58:41 GMT -5
Just a FYI to provide a little perspective to Toppdogg's post- A portion of Howard's money comes in the form of a subsidy from the federal government -- the "recommended" amount of $237,392,000* for FY 2007.
*Based on my research --Appropriations Bill H.R. 5647.
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 21, 2007 18:27:46 GMT -5
I think what TOPPDOGG said was the case (sort of, Howard might not be harder than A&T but it is more selective than A&T). Now A&T is simply accepting a lot more unprepared students. We still don't have the scholarship money to offer the good ones. Howard does. Howard also has the money to put programs in place to help the lesser ones that do manage to get in.
Howard has the distinct advantage of sitting up under Congress' nose. As long as they don't make too much stink they'll get their money.
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Post by A&T AGGIE 96 on Mar 23, 2007 8:46:00 GMT -5
Does anyone have any information on what the "plan" is to improve the situation. Battle will have his work cut out for him in July...and he is going to have to hit the ground running.
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Post by aggielove on Mar 23, 2007 11:57:35 GMT -5
I want to know how that works - is Dr. Battle in communication with the interim administration here now so that he has an idea of what is going on currently and what needs to be done once he gets here? Or is it a matter of the interim folks will do what they are going to do, then hand him a progress report or synopsis when he hits campus? Anyone got any insight?
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Mar 23, 2007 13:37:41 GMT -5
I want to know how that works - is Dr. Battle in communication with the interim administration here now so that he has an idea of what is going on currently and what needs to be done once he gets here? Or is it a matter of the interim folks will do what they are going to do, then hand him a progress report or synopsis when he hits campus? Anyone got any insight? Battle and Hackely both confirmed in separate settings that they are in frequent contact. Hackely also confirmed that he will remain on campus (I think he said for at least two months) after Battle arrives to assist in the transition, after that, he will only remain at the pleasure of Battle.
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Post by SHB2K on Mar 24, 2007 14:54:01 GMT -5
I was told that same "look to your left, look to your right" crap my freshman year at A&T. My first year of law school at Howard I was told "look to your left and look to your right. At least one of those people will need your help to make sure they graduate when you do." 90% of my class at Howard graduated. MY how things have changed in such a short period.... At HUSL orientation, we were told straight up that it was MANDATORY that at least 5 people would get curved out by the second year. It was about 10 of them that didn't make it back. You think A&T is bad about not allowing matriculation... The lawschool climate is like a reality show these days. If you make it to the second year, you have a great deal to be thankful for. As for A&T... I am one of those students who had a horrible high school gpa, and a great SAT score. I was told I probably wouldn't get in at T, and they took a chance on me. I graduated cum laude and went to law school. That said, I was definitely the exception and not the rule. Many of my friends that came in with me in 2000 are still hovering around Greensboro with no credit hours this semester. I now agree that we have to cap admission numbers and implement more academic assistance programs. I can tell you as a recent grad, that we have created an academic climate where it is okay to miss three classes on a Monday so you can get your chest painted up and be the star of the Dawg Pound at the game that night. The social life at A&T has taken precedent over the academics. Also, there are teachers that are still on campus GIVING out grades. I used to glorify these cats as gods, but now I realize how much they were probably hurting me. At A&T, its nothing for a student to come in, sign the roll, and head out to post up on the Holland Bowl for the remainder of the class period. Where I am now, its nothing for a teacher to still be talking 30 minutes AFTER classtime is over and all the rear ends remain firmly planted in the seats because they are afraid of missing the material. Its not just the students that are failing themselves, we must hold the faculty accountable as well.
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Post by aggielove on Mar 26, 2007 7:49:06 GMT -5
Aggie77, thanks for the answer!
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 28, 2007 19:31:08 GMT -5
one main problem for admin. is to hire people who will look out for "T's" best interest!!! if possible have a hearing for those who feel they got fired unjustly.... and the ones who got fired for doing their job... hire them back... the ones who got fired because they asked questions their boss didn't want to answer.... hire them back!!! everyone who works there are suppose to look out for a&t's best interest.... the ball has been dropped somewhere!!!
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