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Post by aggiejazz on Mar 13, 2007 14:12:18 GMT -5
Hackley did list programs that he and his staff are working to established or bolster to help the students that are currently enrolled. He also talked about the financial health of the university which again is cash poor.
You are all are asking for solutions from Hackley while according to him, he is still trying to identify and ferrett out most if not all of this mess.
Why are some of the Aggies so defensive? A&T has gone from the top HBCU in the state to the last. The numbers don't tell the whole story but one can say the same arithmetic was used to caculate these numbers for all HBCUs and A&T is still last.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Mar 13, 2007 16:25:27 GMT -5
In looking at US News and World Report academic classifications, it was pretty interesting. They classify schools as: Most Selective, More Selective, Selective, Less Selective, Least Selective. Where should A&T be?
Examples, Take a look:
Most Selective - Duke, Carolina More Selective - NC State, Elon, Spelman Selective - UNC-G, East Carolina, App St., Howard, Hampton Less Selective - A&T, WSSU, FAMU, High Point, St. Aug Least Selective - NCCU, Delaware St., Shaw
Should A&T upgrade our academics to "selective"? As many HBCUs as there are in NC, NONE are classified as 'selective'. It's time.
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 13, 2007 16:45:46 GMT -5
It's past time.
To answer a question you asked earlier Max, I believe Bowles' predessor put out the mandate to increase enrollment at all the state schools. That's part of the reason why so many of the NC schools aren't doing well now. We weren't the only school accepting kids that would be better served by a few years in a community college. We were, to my knowledge, the only school throwing cookouts and printing imbecillic comic strips to recruit students. On the average trip down I-95 you'll see practicially every state school that ain't State, Carolina and UNCC advertised on a billboard.
While I understand that kids do need an opportunity I also understand that we don't have anything close to the resources to extend kids that aren't giving at least pretty good scores and extracurriculars an opportunity at the present time. We used to be a well respected engineering and business school. That has all but fallen by the wayside so that we could "give people a chance."
It wasn't all that long ago when the talk was very loud that we would be UNCG-East. If the best we can do is under 40% graduation rate and I'll be the one at the front of the line saying do it.
I hope Hackley and company send a copy of them stats to every alumnus so maybe folks will finally quit making excuses and quit trying to accept every non-college material individual we don't have the ability to help.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Mar 14, 2007 15:40:37 GMT -5
We've discussed this issue many times before, and as I stated before, A&T has always been able to work it's problems out. Some of you, I feel, really miss the point as to the role A&T serves to the privilaged and the under-priviledged. I'm not worried about graduation rates as long as my people are given a chance to excell. A&T has done that, and I believe, will continue to do that. Raising admissions requirements will just cheat another young brother or sister out of an opportunity. I think it's wrong for A&T to try and compete with institution that have greater resources. You do the best with what you have. We've done a mighty fine job of producing some fine young men and women. Some of us are just being unrealistic. When "T" gets or has the resources to compete with bigger PWC, then we'll see. For now, we need to keep on keeping on, and adjust to the trends as they come. The social and economic environment dictates a lot of problems students encounter. A&T will recognize and adjust as it always have. Hopefully, students will too.
"Tired"
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Post by Bornthrilla on Mar 14, 2007 19:13:05 GMT -5
I sorta agree with Gator. I'm the smartest person I know but if it wasn't for A&T I might not have ever been able to get a college degree. I started at 'T in 95, dropped out in 99 and finally came back and finished my degree in 2005. And that's only because Big Boy's wife found some money for me in an emergency fund during my final semester. If you try to make A&T more selective and just about numbers, a lot of cats like myself might fall through the cracks. Let's not lose sight of our overall mission here.
You could be turning away the next El Presidente.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Mar 14, 2007 19:28:48 GMT -5
BTW: You can look at talented cats like Aggie Mike and see that A&T is still getting the job done.
Let's not be totally jaded by the doom and gloom.
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Post by truthseeker on Mar 14, 2007 19:43:03 GMT -5
it looks like someone was trying to sabotage "T"... back around 99-2000 a guy was telling people at the bowling alley that a friend of his who works at uncg over heard her boss tell some people that in the next few yrs a&t will be uncg east.... let's not forget molley broad was a former uncg president.... now i'm no jack bower but it looks like to me ole molley had everything in place to bring a&t down
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Mar 14, 2007 19:56:58 GMT -5
I sorta agree with Gator. I'm the smartest person I know but if it wasn't for A&T I might not have ever been able to get a college degree. I started at 'T in 95, dropped out in 99 and finally came back and finished my degree in 2005. And that's only because Big Boy's wife found some money for me in an emergency fund during my final semester. If you try to make A&T more selective and just about numbers, a lot of cats like myself might fall through the cracks. Let's not lose sight of our overall mission here. You could be turning away the next El Presidente. We certainly wouldn't want to miss out on the heir apparent. ;D Dr. Battle is proven proponent of improved awareness and accomplishment at the elementary and high school levels. If he begins to raise the expectations levels and well as provide mentorship and scholarship, there's no reason why A&T can't be a part creating that better student. If someone from A&T had come to our 5th grade or 9th grade class and helped us understand what it means to achieve or explained to our parents what it means, I know I would have been a better student. One of the HBCUs in NC needs to break away from the pack. It may as well be A&T. Being selective means I told you in the 8th grade what was expected and helped you and your parents be ready four years later. That's what would set A&T apart. If we needed to "adopt" the EE Smiths, Dudleys and Carvers, then so be it. To hell with changing the tests, learn how to take them and make them work for you. IT CAN BE DONE!
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 14, 2007 20:09:24 GMT -5
That's what I did.
As for the bleeding hearts, I agree with you wholeheartedly but for one minor problem:
We don't have the mechanisms in place to help lesser students right now. We have waaay too many students and waaaay waaaay to few counselors and tutors and systems in place to help the good ones, let alone the marginal ones. We've been busy chasing people who didn't even want to go to school and pleading them to come. Seriously. I've seen it.
We're not helping anybody by accepting anybody at this juncture. If you poor student/bleeding hearts were students at A&T right now chances are great you wouldn't graduate because the same people that helped you get through before no longer have the time to devote to lesser students because 3/4 of the student body is a lesser student.
This is a direct byproduct of too many students. We're failing everybody if we continue.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Mar 14, 2007 20:21:53 GMT -5
Doomsday, thats easy to say ... but you already have your degree ... two of them. I think its interesting how every alumni wants to make A&T have lvy league enrollment standards AFTER they have graduated.
And to address your point, there wasn't that many tutors and academic advisors when I was there either. However, A&T still remains a place where a potential knucklehead like myself can one day become the leader of the most poweful fan organization on the Internet.
Rags to riches baby.
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 14, 2007 20:46:41 GMT -5
There also weren't as many students either. And there weren't nearly as many students that needed special attention. Don't ignore that.
Again, I'm for raising the standards to what they were. You don't understand that the standards have been lowered substantially. The standards I'm talking about wouldn't keep anybody with the ability to read this aloud out of A&T. There are people at A&T that don't have the ability to read this aloud. And they are there alone because we haven't provided them the means to learn. No college student should be unable to read aloud unless they go to Gallaudet or Central.
But I guess it's cool because we can call it giving them a chance. Hmmph.
I guess community colleges that are open specifically to assist lesser students gain the skills they need need to move out the way so A&T can enroll them all and let them fail out a year later.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Mar 14, 2007 22:19:06 GMT -5
Doomsday, thats easy to say ... but you already have your degree ... two of them. I think its interesting how every alumni wants to make A&T have lvy league enrollment standards AFTER they have graduated. We're not talking Ivy League, I'm talking East Carolina, App State, UNC-G. That's not too much to ask. The community college system is bigger and better than it has ever been, use it. There was a time when HBCUs had to serve that purpose,too. Not today.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Mar 15, 2007 6:35:55 GMT -5
When I got to A&T in the early 80s, the standards were much lower than they are now. You should have seen some of the characters that were on the yard back then. We had some of the same problems that's being presented now. The Bible says, the poor will always be amongst us. This seems to be true when it comes to students. Circumstances will dictate all situations and they're not the same for all students.
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 15, 2007 7:55:09 GMT -5
No they weren't Gator. You clearly (again) haven't done your research. Rather than me wasting my time any further I implore you to just go by and visit admissions and see what's really going on.
Why is it that 95% of the "concerned alumni" reading this thread are hearing this stuff for the first time or are shocked by it and I knew about it three years ago? I can't be the only one that's actually concerned.
When you read the Bible Gator, remember that "the poor" didn't refer to poor students. Nor did it state that we should ignore the poor. Right now we are allowing the poor among us and letting them suffer. We are not only not teaching them how to fish, we aren't even giving them fish.
39% is indefensible for ANY four year institution. You are simply not doing what you are created to do if that's the best you can do.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Mar 15, 2007 8:08:56 GMT -5
If that's the case, then I will agree with you. I just know that in the whole scheme of things a college degree does not determine if you are going to be successful or not. There are a lot of cats who couldn't get into Harvard or even UNC who end up changing the world.
Hell, the woman who donated 10 million to A&T a couple of homecomings ago was a college dropout.
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