REAL TRUTHS: The State of North Carolina A&T State

[aggiejazz]

maxell said:

aggie77 said:

We still have 2500 students still not progressing towards a degree.

That number can be misleading. That's the number of students that are not on track to graduate in four years. I didn't graduate in four years, many of us don't. Stuff happens. We drop classes, take a semester off, run out of money, etc. Even the graduation rate is calculated based on a six-year period.

How mis-leading are the numbers, when the total number of the student body continues to decline and those numbers are done on a yearly basis.

A&T has worked through many difficult times but the administration and faculty still have to be accountable. A&T is not a community college and I don't like A&T being used or thought of in that way. Not allowing so many students who scored less than 800 isn't diminishing A&T mission or making it an Ivy league style school. If A&T has a program that works closely with the NC Community College system then A&T will still be the university for those students.

[Gator]

Dude,

I was one of those under achieving high school students that got excepted. There was several of us at A&T like that.

[Gator]

were

[4XLAGGIE]

gator2 said:

Dude,

I was one of those under achieving high school students that got excepted. There was several of us at A&T like that.

Hell, so was I...

[DOOMS]

That's pretty clear without you stating it Gator. It's nothing to be ashamed of. By the way, if you were excepted you wouldn't have gotten in. You were accepted. Knowledge of the proper usage of the word probably led to a piss-poor SAT score for you. But when you got to A&T you got the help you needed to get out and become a success. Hell, you still don't know the proper usage but that clearly hasn't kept you from achieving a great deal more than you would have without a college education. I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Let me make this final point. You either understand it or you don't. I think by now everybody else gets it.

When you went to A&T your success was due in no small part to teachers, counselors, janitors, whoever pulling you aside and helping you along. My success was due to the same thing. I keep in touch with many of my former professors and they all to a man tell me that there are too many students to help now. There are classrooms of 30 to 100 students that might containg five students that are actually ready for college.

When I was in school some of my professors had me tutoring some of those less than stellar kids. It helped both of us. But it took time and individual attention to figure out who needed help and who had the ability to help. With the numbers we have now it's close to impossible to help anybody. Instead of 50% lifting the other 50% as they climb, we have 80% dragging 20% down. Nobody is going to better themselves under those circumstances.

If you only have 39% graduating and you can only count of 20% or less of your grads giving back to the school it's not helping fill the coffers either. We have more people leaving A&T with a sour taste in their mouth than we do people who are willing to help. That shows on the football field, the basketball court, and in the workplace. Making a four-year effort to improve the infrastructure to the point where we can offer lesser students an actual chance is a worthwhile decision. Offering them an acceptance just to take their money is cruel. It's wrong. And we're doing that right now.

I would like to see A&T as a leading producer of competent students and a top-tier institution in the state and the nation. You don't have to turn away kids that weren't the greatest students to achieve that goal. You do have to make sure you have the means in place to provide for their special needs. We don't have that at the present time.

Please tell me where you misunderstand me or where I'm just wrong. Because I don't really see it until somebody let's me know. Thanks!

[Bornthrilla]

That's why people have Aggie pride. Because A&T has a proud reputation of extending its arms and welcoming people in.

The reason why I spend damn near every waking hour thinking of ways to making the school and atheltic department better is because A&T never gave up on me, turned its back on me or stopped trying to give me tools to become successful.

[aggiejazz]

admin said:

That's why people have Aggie pride. Because A&T has a proud reputation of extending its arms and welcoming people in.

The reason why I spend damn near every waking hour thinking of ways to making the school and atheltic department better is because A&T never gave up on me, turned its back on me or stopped trying to give me tools to become successful.

Thrilla, I wish more of the alumni and friends of the university would show it by sending money to the university through the Foundation, alumni association or the many clubs that are out there.

[4XLAGGIE]

aggiejazz said:

admin said:

That's why people have Aggie pride. Because A&T has a proud reputation of extending its arms and welcoming people in.

The reason why I spend damn near every waking hour thinking of ways to making the school and atheltic department better is because A&T never gave up on me, turned its back on me or stopped trying to give me tools to become successful.

Thrilla, I wish more of the alumni and friends of the university would show it by sending money to the university through the Foundation, alumni association or the many clubs that are out there.

Amen!!!

[DOOMS]

Well, if you fail out of A&T because of a lack of support from the school do you really want to give anything to the school? Honestly? For every dropout that moves to California and starts her own temp company there are thousands that move back home or stay in Greensboro and do squat.

Everybody reading this has had a time of serious need. When you think of the people that helped you through that time, how many of them just threw some money at you and left it at that?

Money is a damn good aid but it is by no means a panacea. A&T doesn't need more money nearly as much as it needs to make smart decisions with less money.

[Bigboy]

That dropout that left A&T, she left to transfer to the University of Maryland. Also, she now owns a college in southern California. The top financial people in her company are all family and A&T grads. AGGIE PRIDE!!!!

[Gator]

Dooms,

It's not about just taking peoples money, you're offering an opportunity. Opportunities sometimes cost money!

[DOOMS]

So if I take your money for swimming lessons and throw you in the ocean and you don't know how to swim it's ok because "I offered you the opportunity"? It's the same thing. At least we used to offer lifejackets.

What is the mission of the school? Is it to "offer the opportunity" to learn at your own risk? If that's it I'm ashamed to have matriculated there. That wouldn't instill pride in students or professors. That's how you get the one of the worst grad rates in the state.

Without offering proper support you're not offering an opportunity.

[Gator]

I think your examle is a bit shallow.

Let me give you a better one. I hire you to represent me in court. You do all you're suppose to do to prepare me. We go to court, and I have a lapse or deliberately choose not to perform. Are you going to return my money since we lost the case?

In the opportunities offered, instuctors, courses, facilities, materials are available. All you have to do is study, obsorb the information, and be able to apply it. That's what you pay for. If students are not able, for some reason that are unknown to us, it's not fair to blame everything on the university.

More needs to be done (survey) to find out the real problem.

[DOOMS]

We're letting in people that don't possess the ability to absorb the information without specialized attention.

I guess you didn't get any help from others in getting through. We can agree to disagree on the issue, so long as something is done to correct it.

[Maxell]

gator2 said:

I think your examle is a bit shallow.

Let me give you a better one. I hire you to represent me in court. You do all you're suppose to do to prepare me. We go to court, and I have a lapse or deliberately choose not to perform. Are you going to return my money since we lost the case?

In the opportunities offered, instuctors, courses, facilities, materials are available. All you have to do is study, obsorb the information, and be able to apply it. That's what you pay for. If students are not able, for some reason that are unknown to us, it's not fair to blame everything on the university.

More needs to be done (survey) to find out the real problem.

We don't need a damn survey. Kids are coming to school less prepared for college, period. My son just graduated so I have both a fresh viewpoint as well as my own old azz opinion.

So you either:

A) Accept a higher percentage of kids that are already prepared
B) Require those that aren't to take remedial help/tutoring
C) Help high schools prepare better
D) Accept anybody that meets minimum requirements and let the chips fall where they may


- We have to do A) in order to get more of the kids that are now going to the East Carolinas and App States. The number of kids that are prepared for college can have an enormous influence on the ones that aren't as well prepared. If 70% of freshmen are prepared, they can influence the 30%. If 70% are not prepared, the 30% may consider transferring to UNC-G.
My son was told in freshmen orientation "Look to your left and right. If you graduate, they won't. If one of them graduates, you won't." Four and a half years later, they were right. My son graduated. As far as the other two are concerned, his roomate dropped out his sophomore year. The other kid didn't return for second semester. If our faculty now expects that kind of graduation rate and says that to a group of freshmen, what does that say? To me it says that it is programmmed into the admission/retention policies and practices.

- We have to do more of B) if were are committed help folk. We have to do more than say "this is available". Sometimes you have to lead the horse to the water and then give him a cup.

- We have to do C) if we want to be better long term. Doing C) enhances A) and minimizes the need for B).

- Sometimes we do a lot of D). When we do, we're no better than other schools. The reason I didn't go to NC State was because of the way the black kids were handled after the first semester.