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Post by aggie2039 on Jan 16, 2024 11:28:59 GMT -5
PWIs should not hire black presidents or chancellors either. Any reasoning for this personal belief, or are you just trolling again? Not trolling, just being fair. If white people should not be allowed to be presidents and chancellors at HBCUs neither should black people be allowed to be chancellors at PWIs. Fair is fair.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Jan 16, 2024 11:44:05 GMT -5
Sir, you are the same person who said you did not care that HBCUs have been besieged by proven institutional racism for decades and that they should just stop complaining about it.
So obviously fair is not always fair in your eyes.
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Post by aggie2039 on Jan 16, 2024 11:45:59 GMT -5
Sir, you are the same person who said you did not care that HBCUs have been besieged by proven institutional racism for decades and that they should just stop complaining about it. So obviously fair is not always fair in your eyes. You are right I do not but that doesn't change my statement on the subject. Fair is still fair, im not one to cry about everything and blame others as the reason for failure. Nope, not happening.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Jan 16, 2024 11:56:57 GMT -5
If you truly cared about fairness it would seem that you would also want justice done for the decades-long mistreatment of historical black institutions - like your own alma mater.
However, you seem to pick and choose when you are concerned that someone might not be treated fairly.
Why do you consistently overlook the unfair treatment of historical black institutions, but bemoan what you deem to be unfair treatment when non-black people are involved?
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Post by aggie2039 on Jan 16, 2024 11:59:23 GMT -5
If you truly cared about fairness it would seem that you would also want justice done for the decades-long mistreatment of historical black institutions - like your own alma mater. However, you seem to pick and chose when you are concerned that someone might not be treated fairly. Why do you consistently overlook the unfair treatment of historical black institutions, but bemoan what you deem to be unfair treatment when non-black people are involved? Im not worried about the past, worried about the future. Again I do not care about the past. to make things fair and to end the conversation the state should just close HBCUs and merge with PWIs.
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Post by moaggies5 on Jan 16, 2024 12:03:54 GMT -5
Oh wow 2039 you serious? There is federal law that actually prohibits the statement you make. What happened to hiring the best person for the job? Look, I can understand the optics of an HBCU having a non-black person at the helm would be problematic to most. The math of it places us in the crosshairs of discrimination and being treated unfairly (way more PWI than HBCUs).
My only concern with a non-black appointment is their inability to fully comprehend and know our whole struggle. On some level, it's fair to say that there are some blacks that have blindspots and even more so not equipped to lead us beyond.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Jan 16, 2024 12:04:53 GMT -5
That sounds like a lot of trauma behind that statement. I will pray for you.
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 16, 2024 12:24:16 GMT -5
What 2039 is doing it making statements he doesn't believe in order to get people to think and engage in dialogue and discourse. It's obvious to me.
Practically every hbcu started out with a white president or chancellor, so that is a part of hbcu history. That being typed, I simply wouldn't want a white chancellor unless he was an alum. I am willing to admit I am not basing this on any logical argument that stands up to scrutiny, and my feeling is completely unsupported by arguments about history, fairness, etc. If Black people had the ability to meet the textbook definition of racist, you could call me a racist on this particular issue, period. And I acknowledge the hypocrisy of feeling a minority should be allowed to be president of a pwi if qualified.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Jan 16, 2024 12:27:50 GMT -5
What 2039 is doing it making statements he doesn't believe in order to get people to think and engage in dialogue and discourse. Maya Angelou said it best: "when people show you who they are, you should believe them."
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Post by moaggies5 on Jan 16, 2024 12:34:33 GMT -5
It seems my brother 2039 is standing on his belief and frankly I respect that. I don't agree and I'm good with that. And you know DOOMS I completely agree with you and there are some areas in my heart that I'm a little racist. Thank God for Jesus!
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Post by aggie7983 on Jan 16, 2024 13:28:21 GMT -5
What 2039 is doing it making statements he doesn't believe in order to get people to think and engage in dialogue and discourse. It's obvious to me. Practically every hbcu started out with a white president or chancellor, so that is a part of hbcu history. That being typed, I simply wouldn't want a white chancellor unless he was an alum. I am willing to admit I am not basing this on any logical argument that stands up to scrutiny, and my feeling is completely unsupported by arguments about history, fairness, etc. If Black people had the ability to meet the textbook definition of racist, you could call me a racist on this particular issue, period. And I acknowledge the hypocrisy of feeling a minority should be allowed to be president of a pwi if qualified. I agree 1000% that our next chancellor whether black or white should be an alum. I think we advanced so much in the past 10 to 15 years under chancellor Martin is because of his love for the university and him being an alum.
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 16, 2024 13:59:18 GMT -5
The thing is, there are plenty of extremely capable human beings out there who regardless of shared race experience, historical context or whatever, would have the makeup to continue and even greatly expand upon what Dr. Martin has done.
There are plenty of people with the drive, vision, connections, experience, listening and learning ability, etc. who could come in and continue Dr. Martin's movement towards making us an r1 institution and even more. And they don't have to be Black to have that ability.
The line of thinking that the next Chancellor must be Black isn't too far off from Dee Todd's "I want a Black coach because Black boys need to be raised by Black men" line of thinking. We see where that got us.
The THREE professors at T I had that helped me along the most and that I remained closest to long after I graduated were all white. All three of them.
Despite all that, I still would have an issue with a white chancellor. It is completely and totally illogical on my part, but I'm willing to admit that much.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Jan 16, 2024 14:50:23 GMT -5
There's a matter of the heart that a white chancellor will never get, ever. No matter how qualified or well intentioned. I learned that during the pandemic/George Floyd/Trump time frame. A number of people that I thought I knew just didn't get it. Folks with good intentions broke a lot of promises.
We have a number of very good white leaders at A&T in key roles, but not the head guy. A surface understanding of the plight of Black people in the South is just not enough.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Jan 16, 2024 14:58:45 GMT -5
to make things fair and to end the conversation the state should just close HBCUs and merge with PWIs. How about just close PWIs and merge with HBCUs?
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 16, 2024 15:16:28 GMT -5
There's a matter of the heart that a white chancellor will never get, ever. No matter how qualified or well intentioned. I learned that during the pandemic/George Floyd/Trump time frame. A number of people that I thought I knew just didn't get it. Folks with good intentions broke a lot of promises. We have a number of very good white leaders at A&T in key roles, but not the head guy. A surface understanding of the plight of Black people in the South is just not enough. To be fair, there were matters of the heart those three professors who mentored me never got. But it never stopped them from trying, from making sure a lot of English majors moved forward, or from being there when we needed them. If we're looking for a Chancellor, imo matters of the heart shouldn't really come into play beyond making sure we're the absolute best we can be and we not only remain viable as a stand-alone institution, but we are at a minimum a serious threat/option to absorb UNCG as part of our institution. That takes brain matter and desire. Unrelated but sort of related, Nick Saban absolutely never got any number of things his Black players went through. It didn't stop them or Bama football from achieving tremendous success, nor did it stop a very large number of his players from giving him great platitudes upon his retirement. For argument's sake let's say Peter Hans, current president of the UNC system, up and gets the job. I don't know the man but I'm pretty certain he couldn't care less about the plight of Black America. But upon receiving the job he takes it upon himself to make sure his legacy is to make Ayantee the greatest HBCU, public or private, and one of the top institutions of higher learning in the nation. He realizes the best way to do that is to become r1, swallow UNCG whole, start a medical school, and quadruple the endowment, and he makes it his life's mission to achieve all those goals within a 20-year timeframe. If he achieves them, who's gonna care that he's white? Now that's a boatload of impossibility I just typed, but I typed it in part in a continued attempt to understand what I still have against hiring a white chancellor.
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