MBB vs UVA

[Aggie Monster]

Nov 16, 2023 11:38:13 GMT -5 DOOMS said:

That goes into recruiting budget. Plus you have to establish a pipeline.

Let's say for argument's sake we establish a pipeline to somewhere in Somalia, and we start winning some games and people take notice. How long will it be before the pipeline ends up cut by other teams with more resources?

I'm not saying we shouldn't even establish the pipeline; I'm saying we already need to be thinking two or three steps ahead after that point and be ready for the next thing that's bound to happen. We don't do that well at all.

Nov 16, 2023 9:05:43 GMT -5 Aggie Monster said:

I dont buy none of these excuses about it being hard to recruit here and win when the women continue to be VERY competitive and just beat Wake Forest.

You used the word "buy." And that's the key point. Bowling is also kicking a$$. But guess what bowling and women's basketball aren't? Money sports.

If it's a money sport it is much more difficult off the top, unless you're Deion Sanders or something.

I don't believe there's been a coach in the history of our school that could successfully out-recruit most of our competition in today's landscape with the prima donna players who have multiple options that almost all have better support. Especially not to the point they could get enough players to hang within 15 of UVA.

Our basketball coach was head coach at the UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE. We're not even the biggest nor best funded basketball school on Market Street. It's incumbent upon the school to outspend our competition in order to even keep even with them.

Your argument would be so on point if the highest funded program always won the championship in every conference and the lowest look like a rec league team. The rec league reference always applies to A&T for some reason. Our bball team rarely plays above its head to look respectable. When we get beat, we get BEAT.

[DOOMS]

It's a lot harder to lose if you are the highest funded program lol. If a higher funded program loses, they go get a new coach because they know that's where the issue is.

Lower funded programs get coach after coach until one sticks to the wall. If he's any good, generally the higher-funded programs snatch him.

It's very rare to see the highest-funded program in any sport outside of the top three of their conference for very long. Hence the constant buyouts and turnover at head coaching positions in football and mens' bball. Had we beaten UVA like they beat us, our coach would be they coach by the end of the season.

But like I said, even if we were the HIGHEST funded program in the CAA, we'd do well to keep even with everybody else.

[oleschoolaggie]

i don't think budget "alone" (or lack thereof) is the reason our biggest revenue sports (football and mbb) are utter disasters. its more so about "the coaches" who actually do the recruiting. recruits tend to gravitate to coaches who they like and have chemistry with, despite lack of facilities or budget.

coach prime is a perfect example of that, he brought kids to jsu who would've never considered attending an hbcu. i mean, when bill hayes first arrived at a&t, we didn't even have a decent weight training facility and gawd knows we didn't fund even half of the full allotment of scholarships for fcs teams. yet, coach hayes brought top notch recruits despite not having the best resources or facilities.

heck, i don't buy this idea that a&t can't recruit well enuf to be competitive in the caa because a&t doesn't have adequate resources. i mean, coach rob doesn't seem to have a problem with recruiting and he has the exact same facilities that mbb has and probably a smaller budget than mbb. also, say what you want about coach jones, but he brought in "top notch" talent that held their own in the caa despite inadequate coaching. i mean, norfolk state has a "winning record" over caa teams in mbb, including a victory over the caa champs at the time. yet, norfolk can't match the resources of most caa teams.

we have guys who left our program in football who are now making noise in the acc! how did we get guys like that if a&t cannot recruit top players because we lack resources and facilities?

aggie recruiting really comes down to the coaches who are doing the "recruiting". sure facilities make a difference, no question about that. but a good recruiter like former coach bill hayes or even a henry frazier, can bring in top notch recruits simply because they have the personality and "charisma" that it takes to win recruits over. look at the track athletes that former coach ross attracted to a&t? if you think we have track facilities that rank in the "top 5" in the country at the d1 level, then you'd be completely WRONG. yet, coach ross signed top notch athletes that led a&t to a "top 5" finish in the country for both our men and women, not to mention that the men finished as high as #2 in the country (if my memory serves me correctly).

so recruiting ain't all entirely about "budget or facilities". we have adequate facilities (not necessarily the best) to be competitive in the caa. the failure to sign the athletes that we need to compete in the caa falls on the shoulders of the coaches who do the recruiting more so than "lact of resources"...

[DOOMS]

Those are very good points. Leaving out non-revenue sports, we have gotten more than our fair share of top football players over the years and perhaps a few bball players as well. If I recall correctly most were underrecruited or we were one of their only offers. And as we saw this past season, a number of them that could left for greener pastures. And a number of players voiced a lot of infrastructure based complaints about the program.

There’s little doubt in my mind that the coaching turnover helped lead to the football and basketball losses. That being typed, I believe replacing what was lost, retaining what was lost in the first place, attracting and keeping top players and coaches, and maintaining a competitive program would be a lot easier with better support, infrastructure, and finances. That much I’m sure of.

Sometimes you do catch lightning in a bottle and get the right coach at the right time, i.e., Deion at JSU. But it remains to be seen if they can maintain what they got in his short time there. He’s an example of what I stated regarding how a higher funded program will snatch your coach (and your players) whenever they please if they are so inclined.

Now as you noted, budget alone is definitely not the reason our revenue sports are terrible. I’m just saying they’d most likely be a lot better and a lot easier to fix if our budget hadn’t been historically half the average budget of our current conference foes. That being typed, the way the landscape is now there appears to be a ridiculous arms race to recruit and to keep players. Imo we’re behind the 8 ball in both arenas compared to our conference brethren. I’m hoping we can close the gap I’m perceiving at some point. I’m of the belief we’ll need money moreso than luck to firm up the infrastructure well enough to make that happen.

[oleschoolaggie]

i don't think i disagree with any of the points you made in your last post. other than baseball, i honestly don't feel that any of our athletic facilities need to be completely "overhauled". corbett would be perfectly fine "as is" if we'd just replace those goosh ugly "upper level" bleachers with some brand new "more comfortable" bleachers (we don't need seatbacks on the upper level).

aggie stadium is also adequate for caa competition except it could use a few "tweaks" here and there. like, "painting" over the rust on the bleachers and installing "tv monitors" at each concession stand. our track facilities are already "excellent". softball is "ok", but could use some improvements. bowling needs their own "bowling alley" on campus.

overall, i think our athletic facilities are in "reasonable" condition with the exception of implementing a few "tweaks" here and there. our other athletic resources (i.e., budgets, staffing, etc.) we probably lag behind most caa schools in those categories and i'm not so sure that we'll ever catch up. close the gap? maybe. catch up or surpass? not very likely at all, almost no shot at reaching that level. but it would "help" our athletics if we could...

[saabman]

Nov 16, 2023 11:38:13 GMT -5 DOOMS said:

That goes into recruiting budget. Plus you have to establish a pipeline.

Let's say for argument's sake we establish a pipeline to somewhere in Somalia, and we start winning some games and people take notice. How long will it be before the pipeline ends up cut by other teams with more resources?

I'm not saying we shouldn't even establish the pipeline; I'm saying we already need to be thinking two or three steps ahead after that point and be ready for the next thing that's bound to happen. We don't do that well at all.

Nov 16, 2023 9:05:43 GMT -5 Aggie Monster said:

I dont buy none of these excuses about it being hard to recruit here and win when the women continue to be VERY competitive and just beat Wake Forest.

You used the word "buy." And that's the key point. Bowling is also kicking a$$. But guess what bowling and women's basketball aren't? Money sports.

If it's a money sport it is much more difficult off the top, unless you're Deion Sanders or something.

I don't believe there's been a coach in the history of our school that could successfully out-recruit most of our competition in today's landscape with the prima donna players who have multiple options that almost all have better support. Especially not to the point they could get enough players to hang within 15 of UVA.

Our basketball coach was head coach at the UNIVERSITY OF DELAWARE. We're not even the biggest nor best funded basketball school on Market Street. It's incumbent upon the school to outspend our competition in order to even keep even with them.

You can't establish a pipeline unless you send a representative there to evaluate and Identify the talent your looking for . I remember when Shaquille O'Neal was at veal flicking as a youth. Coach is here in the states knew about him by Word of Mouth for military personnel before he even hit San Antonio. We all know someone overseas that are fans of the game all our coaches staff has to do is listen to them when they reach out. Europe in Africa on a hot spots for big men at this time, maybe it's time to send a representative there to one of their development academies they're not hard to find.