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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 10, 2020 16:27:06 GMT -5
....so kissing Becky is the Big South... ....kissing LaNeNe is the MEAC... I think I get the analogies now....
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Post by thefriscotxaggie on Feb 10, 2020 16:31:31 GMT -5
1. There is no way NCCU, SC State or FAMU would turn their backs on home & home with us. Other than either schools homecoming & the Florida Classic the game with us becomes each schools highest attended games. So they gone pass up that $$ and the chance to beat us cause we left the conference.... Nope dont think so!!!
2. Our leaving does hurt the conference and the remaining members need to take that up with the lackadaisical MEAC office.
3. Hampton leaving is not a good comparison because they just up and left; we are giving proper notice to MEAC per the by laws.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 10, 2020 16:43:15 GMT -5
How is T remaining in the MEAC helping out NCCU, FAMU, BCU, SCSU. a&t staying in the conference keeps the meac stable, keeps an "hbcu" conference stable. and even if the meac does eventually collapse with a&t still a member, we will still survive one way or the other. would i be willing to take that risk for the sake of my fellow hbcu's? you dayum right i would! they didn't kick us out when we couldn't win a football game even if somebody paid us to, when we had the worst hbcu athletic department in the country. let's face it, now a&t is currently the backbone of the meac. the meac could least afford us leaving more than any other meac member. but now that we're high and mighty, we turn our backs on our own and haul azz to a pwc conference. from my view point, we have completely turned our backs on our fellow hbcu brethren and i personally don't see it any other way. i'm a "loyalist", i'm a strong believer in "family" to the very end. i don't believe in forgetting where i come from and how i came to live a very comfortable lifestyle during my adult life. we hbcu's have traveled a long historic road together. those big south schools did "nothing" to help our cause thru the dire years as our fellow hbcu's have. we're celebrating the a&t four at a time we're joining many of the very same people we had to "sit in" protest against. and to that point, the big south conference is now largely responsible for "poaching away" meac members for the big south conference's own good, never once looking our way until their conference itself was on "life support". i have "zero" loyalty to big south schools, but i now sympathize with those who are left in the meac because we've left them with a very uncertain future. i do not and will not apologize for my loyalty to my fellow hbcu's. if i have to take the heat from my own alums for sticking up for my fellow hbcu's, then so be it. i know where i came from and i will never forget where i came from. in my view, we have done our own wrong...
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Post by thefriscotxaggie on Feb 10, 2020 17:17:16 GMT -5
How is T remaining in the MEAC helping out NCCU, FAMU, BCU, SCSU. a&t staying in the conference keeps the meac stable, keeps an "hbcu" conference stable. and even if the meac does eventually collapse with a&t still a member, we will still survive one way or the other. would i be willing to take that risk for the sake of my fellow hbcu's? you dayum right i would! they didn't kick us out when we couldn't win a football game even if somebody paid us to, when we had the worst hbcu athletic department in the country. let's face it, now a&t is currently the backbone of the meac. the meac could least afford us leaving more than any other meac member. but now that we're high and mighty, we turn our backs on our own and haul azz to a pwc conference. from my view point, we have completely turned our backs on our fellow hbcu brethren and i personally don't see it any other way. i'm a "loyalist", i'm a strong believer in "family" to the very end. i don't believe in forgetting where i come from and how i came to live a very comfortable lifestyle during my adult life. we hbcu's have traveled a long historic road together. those big south schools did "nothing" to help our cause thru the dire years as our fellow hbcu's have. we're celebrating the a&t four at a time we're joining many of the very same people we had to "sit in" protest against. and to that point, the big south conference is now largely responsible for "poaching away" meac members for the big south conference's own good, never once looking our way until their conference itself was on "life support". i have "zero" loyalty to big south schools, but i now sympathize with those who are left in the meac because we've left them with a very uncertain future. i do not and will not apologize for my loyalty to my fellow hbcu's. if i have to take the heat from my own alums for sticking up for my fellow hbcu's, then so be it. i know where i came from and i will never forget where i came from. in my view, we have done our own wrong... The only thing that bothered me about the move was our ability to pack our rival schools stadium / gym. Upon further inspection we can still do that. I am all for a home & home with NCCU etc. and I love the fact that we help them feel that little tiny stadium and get paid! Regardless of what happens with the MEAC we are helping are fellow schools by helping provide them with a homecoming type of pay day that their fans want to see and so do ours.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 10, 2020 23:02:37 GMT -5
of course it is. would you really expect them to visit aggie stadium without a return visit? the mere fact that we'll ask them to play us at all is "exploiting" them. it don't matter whether its a home-n-home deal or not. the exploitation is that a&t decided to leave them for dead in the meac. so now we want to "use them" for our benefit despite our actions to leave them for dead in a conference that very well could collapse as a result of our actions. its wanting our cake (joining the bs) and eating it too (playing nccu). it is exploiting nccu solely for our benefit while at the same time giving them the finger because we've damaged their future potential in the meac. you dayum right that's exploiting nccu. we'd be using nccu to help make our decision to leave the meac "easier" to deal with. if that ain't exploitation, i don't know what exploitation is and i clearly know what exploitation is. like i said in a previous post, that's like breaking up with your girlfriend and asking her to give you some even though you now are dating a white girl... "like i said in a previous post, that's like breaking up with your girlfriend and asking her to give you some even though you now are dating a white girl" Happens all the time this day and age lol. Your heart is in the right place at the wrong time. The conference survived just fine before NCCU, SSU, and WSSU joined while we were complete trash athletically. They will continue to be fine after we leave. If they fall apart it's not because of us, it's because of negligent leadership in the MEAC office. I truly can't call them negligent, but more so overly complacent and lack creativity. Everyone has spoken more positive about downgrading and dropping to D2 compared to upgrading to a "stronger" conference while remaining D1. How do you define progress? Something's you just can't fix with a stubborn girlfriend refusing to grow with you keeping your best interest in mind so it's better to part ways and rebound with Becky for a little while lol. that's a very selfish point of view. the one thing i always liked about hbcu's is that at the end of the day, we always supported each other. unlike pwc's, we've always shared our legacy and we've always come to each other's support when competing against pwc's. there is a unique brotherhood and sisterhood that exists amongst all hbcu's but we have now broken that bond. i don't care if the meac schools have not maintained athletic departments that kept pace with ours. hail, did ya'll forget what the state of our very own athletic department was prior to dr. martin's arrival? funny how folk forget where they came from. funny how folk point the finger at other meac schools even though a mere 10 years ago, ours was worst than any other school in the meac and worst than any other hbcu conference member regardless of division. yet, some of our alums are looking down on other meac schools as if we're too good to be grouped with other hbcu's. what the rest of the meac does or does not do haven't stopped a&t from excelling. our track program is better than any other fcs school in the country and also better than most "bcs" schools. yet, some aggie alums allege that the meac schools are holding us back? hail, hampton won the big south track and field championship in their first season in the conference. but what has the big south done for hampton's football and basketball programs? so much for the big south improving hbcu's that join their conference...
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Post by lobengula on Feb 11, 2020 4:24:15 GMT -5
I believe the most we could have given them by staying was more time to figure things out ... and maybe a blueprint to emulate our success. Their schools looked more credible when folks knew they were in the same conference as A&T. By leaving the MEAC now, we are pretty much pulling the plug on the Celebration Bowl and any chance for the remaining teams to generate any significant revenue. Agreed. At the press conference Dr. Martin said "this was not my idea, it was the Board of Trustees..." Maybe it would have been better if the Aggie Family could have had some input by way of a survey to gauge the interest. Being that this did not occur I am suspicious of the ulterior motive Involved. At some point there should have been a meeting with the Presidents of members schools with emphasis upon our collective survival because ultimately this is the existential reality. So like taking a spoon of castor oil guess I got to pinch my nose and swallow similar to this voting thing, oh God help us or God damn us.
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Post by outsidethinker on Feb 11, 2020 11:34:34 GMT -5
"like i said in a previous post, that's like breaking up with your girlfriend and asking her to give you some even though you now are dating a white girl" Happens all the time this day and age lol. Your heart is in the right place at the wrong time. The conference survived just fine before NCCU, SSU, and WSSU joined while we were complete trash athletically. They will continue to be fine after we leave. If they fall apart it's not because of us, it's because of negligent leadership in the MEAC office. I truly can't call them negligent, but more so overly complacent and lack creativity. Everyone has spoken more positive about downgrading and dropping to D2 compared to upgrading to a "stronger" conference while remaining D1. How do you define progress? Something's you just can't fix with a stubborn girlfriend refusing to grow with you keeping your best interest in mind so it's better to part ways and rebound with Becky for a little while lol. that's a very selfish point of view. the one thing i always liked about hbcu's is that at the end of the day, we always supported each other. unlike pwc's, we've always shared our legacy and we've always come to each other's support when competing against pwc's. there is a unique brotherhood and sisterhood that exists amongst all hbcu's but we have now broken that bond. i don't care if the meac schools have not maintained athletic departments that kept pace with ours. hail, did ya'll forget what the state of our very own athletic department was prior to dr. martin's arrival? funny how folk forget where they came from. funny how folk point the finger at other meac schools even though a mere 10 years ago, ours was worst than any other school in the meac and worst than any other hbcu conference member regardless of division. yet, some of our alums are looking down on other meac schools as if we're too good to be grouped with other hbcu's. what the rest of the meac does or does not do haven't stopped a&t from excelling. our track program is better than any other fcs school in the country and also better than most "bcs" schools. yet, some aggie alums allege that the meac schools are holding us back? hail, hampton won the big south track and field championship in their first season in the conference. but what has the big south done for hampton's football and basketball programs? so much for the big south improving hbcu's that join their conference... You can't be held back by anyone if you're not trying to grow.... You may see my viewpoint as "selfish", but it's your fault lol. I started at T nearly 30 years after you. You putting in your time at T made our lives better as the future generation. Your generation afforded my generation chances for greater opportunity. Now that we're trying to capitalize on it you're saying that we should've just been happy with what you gave us and leave it at that. Complacency(That's why the MEAC is struggling now). Keep in mind none of us had in any input on the change and it was a board decision from Aggies much older than myself. As my elders and key contributors to the University I assume they have all the knowledge to make the wise decisions that come with age and experience. How is staying away from scheduling HBCUs in the future going to help support the other MEAC members? Are you saying we're better off by not playing other HBCUs because of hurt pride and just split money with the PWIs instead OOC? Is the BigSouth lightyears better than the MEAC? Absolutely not, but in 5 to 10 years which conference do you think would have the better chance at winning the most Championships? Which conference do you think will be higher ranked? Defend your answer lol
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 11, 2020 13:45:45 GMT -5
that's a very selfish point of view. the one thing i always liked about hbcu's is that at the end of the day, we always supported each other. unlike pwc's, we've always shared our legacy and we've always come to each other's support when competing against pwc's. there is a unique brotherhood and sisterhood that exists amongst all hbcu's but we have now broken that bond. i don't care if the meac schools have not maintained athletic departments that kept pace with ours. hail, did ya'll forget what the state of our very own athletic department was prior to dr. martin's arrival? funny how folk forget where they came from. funny how folk point the finger at other meac schools even though a mere 10 years ago, ours was worst than any other school in the meac and worst than any other hbcu conference member regardless of division. yet, some of our alums are looking down on other meac schools as if we're too good to be grouped with other hbcu's. what the rest of the meac does or does not do haven't stopped a&t from excelling. our track program is better than any other fcs school in the country and also better than most "bcs" schools. yet, some aggie alums allege that the meac schools are holding us back? hail, hampton won the big south track and field championship in their first season in the conference. but what has the big south done for hampton's football and basketball programs? so much for the big south improving hbcu's that join their conference... You can't be held back by anyone if you're not trying to grow.... You may see my viewpoint as "selfish", but it's your fault lol. I started at T nearly 30 years after you. You putting in your time at T made our lives better as the future generation. Your generation afforded my generation chances for greater opportunity. Now that we're trying to capitalize on it you're saying that we should've just been happy with what you gave us and leave it at that. Complacency(That's why the MEAC is struggling now). Keep in mind none of us had in any input on the change and it was a board decision from Aggies much older than myself. As my elders and key contributors to the University I assume they have all the knowledge to make the wise decisions that come with age and experience. How is staying away from scheduling HBCUs in the future going to help support the other MEAC members? Are you saying we're better off by not playing other HBCUs because of hurt pride and just split money with the PWIs instead OOC? Is the BigSouth lightyears better than the MEAC? Absolutely not, but in 5 to 10 years which conference do you think would have the better chance at winning the most Championships? Which conference do you think will be higher ranked? Defend your answer lol you're totally missing my point. i am not saying that younger aggies should've just been happy with what older alums left for you and leave it at that. nowhere did i state such a thing. what i stated is that a&t does not need to join the big south in order to continue to grow. it is a "myth" that changing conference affiliations helps a school to grow. if that's the case, then tell me why hasn't tennessee state grown more than us? tennessee state has been in a far stronger pwc conference (ovc) than the big south for over 30 doggone years! yes, that's over 30 years! so if your theory is correct, then why hasn't tennessee state outgrown a&t? tennessee state doesn't have a "top 10" division 1 track program. and last i checked, tennessee state football was 3-9 last season, loss to jackson state and arkansas pine bluff "at home"! whereas we beat the best team in the swac (alcorn), but neither jackson state (4-8 record, next to last in the swac east divison with a 3-4 losing record) nor arkansas pine bluff (6-5 record but includes two "d2 wins" and finished next to last in the swac west division with a 3-4 losing record) had winning records in the "swac". i mean, so much for a stronger pwc conference helping tennessee state football to grow, huh? tennessee state is still losing to inferior swac teams that have "losing swac records" and to make matters worse, tennessee state loss to both of them "at home"! so its a bunch of "bull" to suggest that a&t has to leave the meac and join the big south conference in order to grow. conference affiliation ain't got jack to do with the growth of a university's athletics. clemson played in arguably the "weakest" bcs football conference in america, yet they won the national championship game over alabama 2 out of the last 4 years and made it to the championship game 4 out of the last 5 years. clemson football grew despite playing in a weak conference and a&t athletics can continue to grow despite playing in the meac...
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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 11, 2020 15:11:39 GMT -5
it is a "myth" that changing conference affiliations helps a school to grow. if that's the case, then tell me why hasn't tennessee state grown more than us? Wow. Great question ....
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Post by Maxell on Feb 11, 2020 19:29:24 GMT -5
it is a "myth" that changing conference affiliations helps a school to grow. if that's the case, then tell me why hasn't tennessee state grown more than us? Wow. Great question .... If internet streaming opportunities are 25:1 then it’s worth the risk compared to what we have now across all sports.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 21:47:30 GMT -5
it is a "myth" that changing conference affiliations helps a school to grow. if that's the case, then tell me why hasn't tennessee state grown more than us? Wow. Great question .... OSA asked a damn good question. The only way A&T grows from its affiliation with the Big South is if we start getting a deluge......of white/non-black students. Let's keep it real here; black folks know A&T. Are there a few black population pockets in America that ain't familiar with A&T? I guess you could surmise that, but I don't know how well. However, I have a hard time believing that the 22nd century digital network the Big South has that folks are salivating over is what is gonna get those black students to us. What it's gonna do is bring more non-black students to us. Yes, I believe there is more room of growth for A&T; but the question to ask is do we want to have 5000-7000 more minority students on campus or 5000-7000 more majority students on campus? I just don't see where this digital network brings in masses of the former; but there is much more potential for it to bring in masses of the latter. Why? Because A&T is a damn good school that will prepare ANYBODY for a wonderful, prosperous life. A&T prepares you for success - not black-only success - but success. But at the core - A&T was designed to ensure that BLACK FOLKS were given that chance at an education that could lead to a wonderful, prosperous life. Other schools (and if you wanna keep it 100, those in the Big South) weren't giving your an my great grandma and great grandpa educational chances to prepare them for future success. So here we are - 2020. We're moving to the Big South. We're athletically disassociating ourselves from our MEAC brethren. If we still want A&T to continue to grow ---- we really have to ask ourselves how do we want that growth to look.By joining the Big South, I think it's a sign we want more non-black students on our campus to get our enrollment to 20,000 or to whatever arbitrary number the chancellor has in his head. No Celebration Bowl.... No schedules laden with other black schools..... Who are we kidding? This screams of A&T wanting to be "HBCU-lite." Now if that's what you/we want, then say it. To me, this is the big elephant in the room that ain't getting addressed....or folks are too scared to delve into it. We have 12,142 students (per US News: www.usnews.com/best-colleges/north-carolina-at-2905).....28% are students who are first generation college students (ie. THAT'S US). We're 81.1% black (https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/north-carolina-a-and-t-state-university/student-life/diversity/chart-ethnic-diversity.html) I don't see where we get to nearly 20,000 students in the future......with it still being 81.1% black. It could remain predominantly black, but 80% black??? More like 60-65% black (ie. greater influx of non-black students). So for all who are clamoring for the move to the Big South and who are clamoring for further growth at A&T ---- I think you need to clarify how you envision that "GROWTH" to look like. From a demographic standpoint, if we get greater growth, I can't see where the Big South affiliation leads to us having the same type of demographic (ie. black student) growth that we've had over the past 10 years. I honestly seeing us looking more and more HBCU-lite as the years go by. If that's what you want - cool. I see this move as an inevitability of A&T looking more and more "HBCU-lite" as the decades pass. Do you?
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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 11, 2020 22:08:16 GMT -5
Woah there, buckaroo. I think you are going a little reverse Steve Bannon here.
A&T probably has already determined the desired percentage of minority students that they are targeting to make up the total student enrollment in the next decade. You can likely go to Dowdy and find out those exact figures.
I would try to get my hands on that data first before we start assuming that there is some grand scheme to greatly reduce the percentage of black students at A&T.
And once again ... to quote my green-hued homeboy, Yoda (senior not Baby): "fear leads to hate and hate leads to the darkside."
We are far too strong of an alumni base to start succumbing to xenophobia.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 22:19:41 GMT -5
No Bornthrilla, This is not about xenophobia...... This is about how you want A&T to look in 20-30 years. If we want 20,000 students at A&T, can we get 20,000 students at A&T with the demographics being still 81.1% black students? Personally, I don't think so. Maybe the chancellor doesn't think so either. So if our goal is to get a certain number of students on our campus by a particular year, what are we doing to amass that number?
Maybe it's by switching conferences to make A&T more attractive to non-black students......I didn't say it was wrong; I'm stating I don't think we can get to a population of 20,000 students (If still 81.1% black - that would equate to 16,220 students being black) with that same demographic breakdown.
That's not being xenophobic - I'm delving into the mind of the powers-that-be as to what THEIR ENVISIONS OF GROWTH look like.
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Post by aggie2039 on Feb 11, 2020 22:25:45 GMT -5
OSA asked a damn good question. The only way A&T grows from its affiliation with the Big South is if we start getting a deluge......of white/non-black students. Let's keep it real here; black folks know A&T. Are there a few black population pockets in America that ain't familiar with A&T? I guess you could surmise that, but I don't know how well. However, I have a hard time believing that the 22nd century digital network the Big South has that folks are salivating over is what is gonna get those black students to us. What it's gonna do is bring more non-black students to us. Yes, I believe there is more room of growth for A&T; but the question to ask is do we want to have 5000-7000 more minority students on campus or 5000-7000 more majority students on campus? I just don't see where this digital network brings in masses of the former; but there is much more potential for it to bring in masses of the latter. Why? Because A&T is a damn good school that will prepare ANYBODY for a wonderful, prosperous life. A&T prepares you for success - not black-only success - but success. But at the core - A&T was designed to ensure that BLACK FOLKS were given that chance at an education that could lead to a wonderful, prosperous life. Other schools (and if you wanna keep it 100, those in the Big South) weren't giving your an my great grandma and great grandpa educational chances to prepare them for future success. So here we are - 2020. We're moving to the Big South. We're athletically disassociating ourselves from our MEAC brethren. If we still want A&T to continue to grow ---- we really have to ask ourselves how do we want that growth to look.By joining the Big South, I think it's a sign we want more non-black students on our campus to get our enrollment to 20,000 or to whatever arbitrary number the chancellor has in his head. No Celebration Bowl.... No schedules laden with other black schools..... Who are we kidding? This screams of A&T wanting to be "HBCU-lite." Now if that's what you/we want, then say it. To me, this is the big elephant in the room that ain't getting addressed....or folks are too scared to delve into it. We have 12,142 students (per US News: www.usnews.com/best-colleges/north-carolina-at-2905).....28% are students who are first generation college students (ie. THAT'S US). We're 81.1% black (https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/north-carolina-a-and-t-state-university/student-life/diversity/chart-ethnic-diversity.html) I don't see where we get to nearly 20,000 students in the future......with it still being 81.1% black. It could remain predominantly black, but 80% black??? More like 60-65% black (ie. greater influx of non-black students). So for all who are clamoring for the move to the Big South and who are clamoring for further growth at A&T ---- I think you need to clarify how you envision that "GROWTH" to look like. From a demographic standpoint, if we get greater growth, I can't see where the Big South affiliation leads to us having the same type of demographic (ie. black student) growth that we've had over the past 10 years. I honestly seeing us looking more and more HBCU-lite as the years go by. If that's what you want - cool. I see this move as an inevitability of A&T looking more and more "HBCU-lite" as the decades pass. Do you? Where did the number 20K come from?
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 22:36:30 GMT -5
It's a hypothetical number.... Use whatever number feels comfortable to you.
The primary issue I'm illuminating is: HOW DOES A&T GROW AND HOW DOES THAT GROWTH LOOK LIKE?
I think it's safe to say we are NOT satisfied at capping our growth at 12,000 students.....is that fair to say? So if we want to get to 15,000 or 17,500 or 20,000 students - how do we get those extra students on campus.....and (what continues not to be discussed) what do those students look like?
Every move A&T or any other school makes is for prosperity; prosperity usually equates to GREATER STUDENT ENROLLMENT.
I just don't see where joining the Big South, from a growth perspective, increases our student growth without some degree of demographic shift occurring.
Feel free to tell me where my thinking is wrong - I'm willing to listen and learn..... And to be clear - discussing demographics DOES NOT equate to xenophobia.
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