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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 11, 2020 22:38:08 GMT -5
No Bornthrilla, This is not about xenophobia...... This is about how you want A&T to look in 20-30 years. If we want 20,000 students at A&T, can we get 20,000 students at A&T with the demographics being still 81.1% black students? Personally, I don't think so. Maybe the chancellor doesn't think so either. So if our goal is to get a certain number of students on our campus by a particular year, what are we doing to amass that number? Maybe it's by switching conferences to make A&T more attractive to non-black students......I didn't say it was wrong; I'm stating I don't think we can get to a population of 20,000 students (If still 81.1% black - that would equate to 16,220 students being black) with that same demographic breakdown. That's not being xenophobic - I'm delving into the mind of the powers-that-be as to what THEIR ENVISIONS OF GROWTH look like. Uh ... this is getting dangerously close to questioning a person's character and integrity. Chancellor Martin may be foolishly optimistic or even misguided in this decision, but in my opinion he is not sinister. He is a proud black man who is extremely knowledgeable about the proud history of his alma mater. He is a tireless fighter for all things Ayantee. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt before we start even remotely implying that he has a master plan to dramatically alter the racial makeup of this university. He has done nothing to warrant that kind of speculation. In fact, he has earned a lot more of our faith than that.
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Post by outsidethinker on Feb 11, 2020 22:40:49 GMT -5
it is a "myth" that changing conference affiliations helps a school to grow. if that's the case, then tell me why hasn't tennessee state grown more than us? Wow. Great question .... You're correct, Tennessee States leadership is on par with the MEACs leadership.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 22:46:51 GMT -5
No Bornthrilla, This is not about xenophobia...... This is about how you want A&T to look in 20-30 years. If we want 20,000 students at A&T, can we get 20,000 students at A&T with the demographics being still 81.1% black students? Personally, I don't think so. Maybe the chancellor doesn't think so either. So if our goal is to get a certain number of students on our campus by a particular year, what are we doing to amass that number? Maybe it's by switching conferences to make A&T more attractive to non-black students......I didn't say it was wrong; I'm stating I don't think we can get to a population of 20,000 students (If still 81.1% black - that would equate to 16,220 students being black) with that same demographic breakdown. That's not being xenophobic - I'm delving into the mind of the powers-that-be as to what THEIR ENVISIONS OF GROWTH look like. Uh ... this is getting dangerously close to questioning a person's character and integrity. Chancellor Martin may be foolishly optimistic or even misguided in this decision, but in my opinion he is not sinister. He is a proud black man who is extremely knowledgeable about the proud history of his alma mater. He is tireless fighter for all things Ayantee. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt before we start even remotely implying that he has a master plan to dramatically alter the racial makeup of this university. He has done nothing to warrant that kind of speculation. In fact, he has earned a lot more of our faith than that. I HEAR EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING, BT. NOW HEAR ME.... You (and others) need to answer these questions: 1) Can A&T get to 15,000/17,550/20,000 students? 2) Do you really believe joining the Big South springboards us to greater growth? If you do - how does that growth (from a demographic standpoint) look like?
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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 11, 2020 22:53:10 GMT -5
1) Yes
2) No
Personally, I dont have faith that the Big South will be a major boon for this athletic department - other than providing a decent lifeboat from the sinking Titanic. I dont think this move will directly springboard us to any growth. I think we were already on that trajectory without the Big South. I believe we will still be successful, independent of our conference affiliation.
I believe the A&T brand is that strong by itself.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 11, 2020 23:04:31 GMT -5
And by the way, dont be so quick to assume that we will be slowly assimilating into Big South culture.
The number on song on the country music charts this past year was by a gentleman named Lil Nas X.
Aggie Pride is something fierce.
We might very well be exporting our own HBCU culture to the rest of these Big South stadiums, arenas and campuses.
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Post by aggie2039 on Feb 11, 2020 23:05:22 GMT -5
NSS, you are making every effort to prove your case by making baseless statements. Let me help you with some facts 1) The Chancellors goal is to reach 14K by 2023...are we going to make it no, but its a goal 2) He stated 30% non african american enrollment...hispanics, asians, indians, arabs, africans, white are considered non-african americans. The hispanic population boom in North Carolina will produce a large number of college age students in a couple of years. I am sure Chancellor Martin and team realize this. www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article213539719.htmlbot.ncat.edu/Shared%20Documents1/56%20-%20BOT%20July%202019%20Retreat_Meeting%20Materials/02%20University%20Overview.pdf2023.pdf (230.76 KB) See Slide #25 Where would we get the african american students from? We have to give african american students that pick UNCG, ECU, UNCC and other institutions over us a reason to attend A&T. The combined AA undergrad enrollment at those universities total ~14K. On our current trajectory we will be able to sway some of those students to attend A&T with some of our current initiatives. 1) continue to grow our endowment for student scholarships 2) continue to move up news and records university rankings 3) modernize our facilities 4) alumni continue to succeed post college and send our kids to A&T
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 23:07:22 GMT -5
1) Yes 2) No Personally, I dont have faith that the Big South will be a major boon for this athletic department - other than providing a decent lifeboat from the sinking Titanic. I dont think this move will directly springboard us to any growth. I think we were already on that trajectory without the Big South. I believe we will still be successful, independent of our conference affiliation. I believe the A&T brand is that strong by itself. So why do something where growth is unlikely? To flip it, I don't see where staying in the MEAC leads to enrollment declining..... Here's an excerpt of the article equating the Celebration Bowl to school growth (https://www.journalnow.com/z-no-digital/celebration-bowl-is-about-more-than-football-for-a-t/article_be90c701-eeeb-5816-a091-a32f234117b5.html) “Any time you get national exposure for the brand, it increases the interest of folks who want to affiliate with that university, either as students or supporters,” Simmons said. “ As we’ve gone to the bowl multiple times, we’ve set records in applications and enrollment and continue to grow as the nation’s largest African American university. It puts us on national television and drives viewers to our websites. It helps all our departments and our research.” Bowl games have a branding element that regular-season games and even playoff games do not. They’re opportunities for schools to remind people that it’s not just a college that plays football but a football team from, in A&T’s case, a research university with nationally recognized programs in mathematics, engineering, agriculture, environmental sciences, education, technology, business and economics.“It pays dividends,” Simmons said. “Intercollegiate athletics at their best makes a great front door to the university. Our student-athletes are great representatives of our academic standards.” I've been to the game. I've seen it on TV as well - the presentation of the Celebration Bowl is geared around celebrating black college excellence. And to be clear --- not college excellence ----- BLACK COLLEGE EXCELLENCE. So we're dropping the MEAC and the Celebration Bowl; we're joining the Big South. Are we 100% certain it's because the travel to Tallahassee and Dover is so financially burdensome that we just gotta stick with playing schools closer to us? There has to be some type of growth component factored into this......ain't no way I ain't making any move for this university without it leading to some type of Aggie growth.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 23:11:12 GMT -5
Let me help you with some facts 1) The Chancellors goal is to reach 14K by 2023...are we going to make it no, but its a goal 2) He stated 30% non african american enrollment...hispanics, asians, indians, arabs, africans, white are considered non-african americans. Break this down for me please. Can you clarify even more what you're saying here.....
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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 11, 2020 23:18:58 GMT -5
Remember, you asked me for my personal opinion about the move ... not what I thought our leader's overall plan was.
I am not a member of the Sunshine Gang. I have been highly skeptical of the decision since it was announced.
My gut feeling tells me this was a panic move, motivated primarily by the current instability of other MEAC schools. We decided we did not want to go down with that ship so we found a life raft.
To make all the survivors onboard feel more comfortable, we are now trying to make that life raft sound like it is a 5-star luxury cruise ship, but really it is just a life raft. It's only benefit is that it is keeping us afloat.
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Post by aggie2039 on Feb 11, 2020 23:19:21 GMT -5
Let me help you with some facts 1) The Chancellors goal is to reach 14K by 2023...are we going to make it no, but its a goal 2) He stated 30% non african american enrollment...hispanics, asians, indians, arabs, africans, white are considered non-african americans. Break this down for me please. Can you clarify even more what you're saying here..... Honestly, I dont want to. This topic was about non conference football opponent and your brought enrollment and demographics into the conversation. I you want to talk about demographics of the university and the chancellors direction start another thread and bring up your grievances with him personally.
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saabman
Official BDF member
Posts: 11,768
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Post by saabman on Feb 11, 2020 23:23:30 GMT -5
Uh ... this is getting dangerously close to questioning a person's character and integrity. Chancellor Martin may be foolishly optimistic or even misguided in this decision, but in my opinion he is not sinister. He is a proud black man who is extremely knowledgeable about the proud history of his alma mater. He is tireless fighter for all things Ayantee. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt before we start even remotely implying that he has a master plan to dramatically alter the racial makeup of this university. He has done nothing to warrant that kind of speculation. In fact, he has earned a lot more of our faith than that. I HEAR EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING, BT. NOW HEAR ME.... You (and others) need to answer these questions: 1) Can A&T get to 15,000/17,550/20,000 students? 2) Do you really believe joining the Big South springboards us to greater growth? If you do - how does that growth (from a demographic standpoint) look like?Hell you don't really know if A&T could have increased enrollment to 15 ,17 or 20K by staying in the MEAC all of what you said is hypothetical at most . Look no one likes the way Chancellor Martin rolled the news out about the move that was a power play on his part letting everyone know he calls the shots and runs the show alongside all of the excuses that we're giving as reasons why A&T made the move to the BS was a Bull S***it move in my opinion . But to speculate on a diverse demographically growth is almost impossible thing to predict . But we will have to wait and see . Aggie Pride
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Feb 11, 2020 23:46:15 GMT -5
Aggie2039, You (not me) brought the chancellor's numbers into this conversation. Here's the way I look at YOUR numbers.
The chancellor wants 14,000 students by 2023 ---- check
Here's my thinking, based upon your numbers you just put up. The 30% number you give; that's the percentage of non-black students he wants A&T to be by 2023 - correct?
If so 14000 x .30 = 4200 non black students That means 9800 students are black by 2023.
Currently, per the US News article I gave you, we have 10,341 undergraduate students with 81.1% being black. That equates to 8,386 students being black and 1,955 being non black.
So, in essence, we gotta roughly gain 1500 more black students by 2023 (not too difficult), but we have to gain 2200+ non-black students IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS to hit the chancellor's targets.....
So to MORE THAN DOUBLE from 1955 non-black students to 4200 non-black students......IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS TO HIT THAT 30% non-AA enrollment benchmark.......THAT EQUATES TO A SIGNIFICANT DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT.
Whether he reach those numbers or not......in his mind, there have to be some significant demographic shifts for those numbers to even be semi-remotely ascertained. How do we get more non-black students to A&T........do things to make A&T to look less black......
It may sound harsh, but I'm looking at NUMBERS, from a demographic standpoint. If we want 14000 students by 2023, with 30% being non-black (ie. 4200 students)....and we only have 1900 non-black students now.....A SIGNIFICANT NON-BLACK RAMP-UP HAS TO GO DOWN IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS.
I don't think staying in the MEAC catalyzes this non-black ramp up......but does joining the Big South? I don't see where this move detrimentally affects such a ramp-up.....
....just looking at numbers vs future demographics vs necessary changes to achieve those benchmark levels....
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Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 12, 2020 0:01:05 GMT -5
Yeah, you are going full reverse Steve Bannon now. And you are not even trying to hide it.
To be honest, it is kind of disappointing that you would seriously question's Chancellor Martin motives like that. You are taking things way past the Big South move and now targeting his overall vision for this university's racial makeup. Let's remember that he is one of the main reasons why our enrollment is even over 12,000 today.
You are now making baseless accusations about a man who has ushered his own alma mater into its current golden age.
He deserves better than this from us.
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Maxell
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Director of BDF Marketing
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Post by Maxell on Feb 12, 2020 0:08:07 GMT -5
No Bornthrilla, This is not about xenophobia...... This is about how you want A&T to look in 20-30 years. If we want 20,000 students at A&T, can we get 20,000 students at A&T with the demographics being still 81.1% black students? Personally, I don't think so. Maybe the chancellor doesn't think so either. So if our goal is to get a certain number of students on our campus by a particular year, what are we doing to amass that number? Maybe it's by switching conferences to make A&T more attractive to non-black students......I didn't say it was wrong; I'm stating I don't think we can get to a population of 20,000 students (If still 81.1% black - that would equate to 16,220 students being black) with that same demographic breakdown. That's not being xenophobic - I'm delving into the mind of the powers-that-be as to what THEIR ENVISIONS OF GROWTH look like. In 2011, I think the 2020 goal was 13,000 students, 70% Black. Much of that was to come from growing the graduate school and the online school. I'm not sure how we are tracking in those two areas.
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Post by aggie2039 on Feb 12, 2020 0:14:57 GMT -5
Aggie2039, You (not me) brought the chancellor's numbers into this conversation. Here's the way I look at YOUR numbers. The chancellor wants 14,000 students by 2023 ---- check Here's my thinking, based upon your numbers you just put up. The 30% number you give; that's the percentage he wants A&T to be by 2023 - correct? If so 14000 x .30 = 4200 non black students That means 9800 students are black by 2023. Currently, per the US News article I gave you, we have 10,341 undergraduate students with 81.1% being black. That equates to 8,386 students being black and 1,955 being non black. So, in essence, we gotta roughly gain 1500 more black students by 2023 (not too difficult), but we have to gain 2200+ non-black students IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS to hit the chancellore's targets..... So to MORE THAN DOUBLE from 1955 non-black students to 4200 non-black students......IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS TO HIT THAT 30% non-AA enrollment benchmark.......THAT EQUATES TO A SIGNIFICANT DEMOGRAPHIC SHIFT. Whether he reach those numbers or not......in his mind, there have to be some significant demographic shifts for those numbers to even be semi-remotely ascertained. How do we get more non-black students to A&T........do things to make A&T to look less black...... It may sound harsh, but I looking at NUMBERS, from a demographic standpoint. If we want 14000 students by 2023, with 30% being non-black (ie. 4200 students)....and we only have 1900 non-black students now.....A SIGNIFICANT NON-BLACK RAMP-UP HAS TO GO DOWN IN LESS THAN 3 YEARS. I don't think staying in the MEAC catalyzes this non-black ramp up......but does joining the Big South? I don't see where this move detrimentally affects such a ramp-up..... ....just looking at numbers vs future demographics vs necessary changes to achieve those benchmark levels.... Bro, he didn’t say undergrads...that 30% includes undergrad and grad. The Chancellor isn’t going to turn kids away because they are black, last stats I saw we were at ~75% grad and undergrad combined.
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