aggie62
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Post by aggie62 on Oct 22, 2023 20:15:08 GMT -5
IMO, the two things that White needs the most are: 1. More time from the offensive line to settle down and go throuh his progressions on pass plays 2. A better of mixture of play-calls to keep the defense guessing If he gets these two things he'll be all right He was only sacked one time , he was only hurried one time. He must learn how to extend plays horizontally before he chooses to go vertically. This gives his receivers time to reset their routes to flow back to him, this is not uncommon for freshman quarterbacks. Watch the receivers for Richmond, when their quarterbacks went horizontal they worked their way back to him, whereas our receivers was just stopped and watched. that is one thing that is learned in receiving 101 to always work yourself back to the quarterback when he is in trouble. Our receivers rarely do that. Like I said there's enough blame to go around. But one thing I know for sure. If white is to develop into the quarterback that we think he will be the athletes around him must develop and execute at the same pace. This is not a one-man show. This is about the unit .
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Oct 22, 2023 20:15:37 GMT -5
Imo he needs to hand the ball off. A whole lot. From different formations with different blocking schemes. Say what you want, if Barnette was OC I’m willing to bet we’d be over 400 yards per game total offense right now with White at the helm. He NEVER had a qb with as much upside as White. We can let go of the tummy quakes over White not being redshirted. Hopefully coach will realize somebody else needs to work with the qbs and run the offense and switch some positions regardless of his feelings on continuity. Imo it remains to be see whether Whote has peaked with the current staff or not. There’s ultimately no way to know until the season has concluded. I'm not worried about White . Because White can't develop with out the O line to block for the run and pass ,the receivers to run proper routes, Catch and block , the running backs, run ,block and catch passes. But without the O line nothing is going to get accomplished period . The O lineman are the most under underappreciated but Most Important part of the offense and they are not looking to good right now 😕 . And we are talking about the QB 😆 . Some have said it can't get worse 😆 Trust me if that O line does not start clicking again . It doesn't matter who the QB,Receivers and RB's or what plays are called, It will get a lot lot worse . Give me a Great O line and average skill players that can execute properly any day over a team with great skill players and a poor O line . Why do you think that North and South Dakota State have so many O lineman in the NFL over the number of skill position players that they produce. Just something to think about . |
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aggie62
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Three Generations of Aggies
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Post by aggie62 on Oct 22, 2023 20:19:59 GMT -5
IMO, the two things that White needs the most are: 1. More time from the offensive line to settle down and go throuh his progressions on pass plays 2. A better of mixture of play-calls to keep the defense guessing If he gets these two things he'll be all right #2 is highly dependent on #1. Personally, I think the game is too fast for him. He had no spring practice, arrived in the summer and was #3 on the depth chart. He needs a couple more years for the game to slow down and see more defenses. |
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Oct 22, 2023 21:09:26 GMT -5
He will improve, the more game reps the better…he is a true freshman. He learned what not to do this weekend, he won’t make the same mistake again. The other QBs will not improve, they aren’t getting game reps. That brings us to another question posted by some. Should we be playing more than one QB the rest of the season to build experience at the position for multiple QBs? We may not have a choice. White has to either learn to let the ball fly and get it out to whom ever is open , let the receivers do the work . Learn lateral play extension before deciding to go vertical to give the receivers time to work back to him and if he can't go vertical with his legs throw the ball away . If he doesn't learn those things he is going to take a pounding like last weekend..i.e White can't just keep running like that without first setting up his running Lanes and even then if it's not a designated run he should run as little as possible. We need to have a situational backup playing but who ? Eli is not ready his body language on the field showed me that . Eli is not the same player as he was before the injury. As for Yeager I have no words Good to say about him period. We all no about Hooker going from this "Summary Hooker has good instincts and knowledge of where to go with the football in the passing game … Comes into the 2023 season competing for the starting quarterback position at A&T … Had a solid 2023 Blue & Gold Spring Game by passing for 51 yards and a touchdown" to not seeing the field at all for what ever reason . Personally Brown needs to do something to relieve the stress and pressure off of White because in my personal personal opinion. White is taking it upon himself by trying to do to much by himself with know guidance . As the team unveils around him . Especially the play of an inconsistent O line that continues to deteriorate and play inconsistent in both the run and pass . His development is surely to be hindered immensely. So it doesn't matter who you put back there just the O line can't function and execute properly nobody is going anywhere or developing. |
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Post by planoaggie on Oct 22, 2023 21:25:58 GMT -5
Is White getting better under current staff after redshirt pulled? If it has peaked, is his growth being limited by him, coaching, or both? We have 5 games to observe whether he is getting better, peaked, or regress. In the Richmond game White definitely did not look better. One could argue that he regressed in passing. One sack, 2 interception, no passing TDs, 37 passing yards, no individual or team rushing TDs, 57% completion, and RTG of 50.8 (his lowest to date in games he threw a pass). www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/5164567/kevin-whiteThe question should be has the team peaked, gotten better or regressed. White is only as effective as the Coaching and talent around him . For me it's all of the above excluding Peaked . You can see that White has the talent but in a team driven sport, it takes more then individual talent.Unit execution and application is the key at this level . That is what this team is lacking. You either peak as a unit or you regress as a unit that has talented players. So it about more then just White . White is just a freshman quarterback with untapped Talent and his development or regression depends on the development or regression of the talent around him. The coaches have to do better . The question does not have to be changed. You can have a good team with a bad QB, just like you can have a bad team with either a good QB or bad QB. All you have to do is focus on the QB individual development. You have mentioned some of these things in previous posts (holding the ball too long, overlooking wide open receivers, deciding to run vs staying in the pocket, completing long vs short throws, progression, etc.). Also, I intentionally made sure that the question focused on the rest of "this season" because there is no way he has peaked for his college career. If he is not learning any more from the staff, the game experience, or his own studying then it is possible that his learning "this season" has peaked or worse yet regressed, thus the question. Of course this is a dynamic and not a static situation, because we will have to evaluate his individual progress over the last 5 games with Richmond being the 1st game. We have a good idea or guess as to whether the team is going to get any better over the next 5 games. No new staff hire or no new players added to the team typically yields similar results. |
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Post by planoaggie on Oct 22, 2023 21:57:26 GMT -5
His development is surely to be hindered immensely. So it doesn't matter who you put back there just the O-line can't function and execute properly nobody is going anywhere or developing. You just gave an answer to my question without knowing it. Since White is part of the QB unit, then you are implying that no QB can develop under the above mentioned conditions you described. My question was not for anyone to answer who is to blame or the cause of White's lack of development if anyone thought that. If White is not going to continue to develop over these next 4 games then you must ask these questions, (1) Why did we not redshirt him?; (2) Should we play him a lot?; and (3) How do we protect him from getting hurt? There are probably more questions that can be asked, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind for me. Next season is a totally different ball game. |
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Oct 22, 2023 22:15:27 GMT -5
The question should be has the team peaked, gotten better or regressed. White is only as effective as the Coaching and talent around him . For me it's all of the above excluding Peaked . You can see that White has the talent but in a team driven sport, it takes more then individual talent.Unit execution and application is the key at this level . That is what this team is lacking. You either peak as a unit or you regress as a unit that has talented players. So it about more then just White . White is just a freshman quarterback with untapped Talent and his development or regression depends on the development or regression of the talent around him. The coaches have to do better . The question does not have to be changed. You can have a good team with a bad QB, just like you can have a bad team with either a good QB or bad QB. All you have to do is focus on the QB individual development. You have mentioned some of these things in previous posts (holding the ball too long, overlooking wide open receivers, deciding to run vs staying in the pocket, completing long vs short throws, progression, etc.). Also, I intentionally made sure that the question focused on the rest of "this season" because there is no way he has peaked for his college career. If he is not learning any more from the staff, the game experience, or his own studying then it is possible that his learning this season has peaked or worse yet regressed, thus the question. Of course this is a dynamic and not a static situation, because we will have to evaluate his individual progress over the last 5 games with Richmond being the 1st game. We have a good idea or guess as to whether the team is going to get any better over the next 5 games. No new staff hire or no new players added to the team typically yields similar results. I understand what you're saying and you are correct. But you can not see development if he doesn't have the time to execute what he has learned other then running for his life and we already know he can run . The play of the O-line is the engine and a QB can't drive or move the car without the engine working properly he just looks good setting in it 😆 . So you really don't know if he can drive it . In this case we have seen what he is capable of doing when the engine is firing on all cylinders in the parking lot but what can he do on the freeway . It's hard to say for Me because parts keep breaking down and not working consistently even after a part has been replaced . I can say that I have seen progress in his short passing game and his abilities to extend and execute plays laterally without going vertical That's a good sign for me . Now I need to see what he can do when he is well protected. Then I will know if he has progressed or regressed..i.e For me we need to see a complete well executed game with all parts working as one . Until then I can't say he has done either progressed, peaked or regressed, in my personal opinion but that's just me . |
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Oct 22, 2023 22:27:18 GMT -5
His development is surely to be hindered immensely. So it doesn't matter who you put back there just the O-line can't function and execute properly nobody is going anywhere or developing. You just gave an answer to my question without knowing it. Since White is part of the QB unit, then you are implying that no QB can develop under the above mentioned conditions you described. My question was not for anyone to answer who is to blame or the cause of White's lack of development if anyone thought that. If White is not going to continue to develop over these next 4 games then you must ask these questions, (1) Why did we not redshirt him?; (2) Should we play him a lot?; and (3) How do we protect him from getting hurt? There are probably more questions that can be asked, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind for me. Next season is a totally different ball game. I'm a here and now person because next year is not guaranteed. Fix what you can now on the offensive side of the ball and hopefully you can upgrade in the off season God Willing 🙏 . |
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Post by planoaggie on Oct 23, 2023 2:00:47 GMT -5
You just gave an answer to my question without knowing it. Since White is part of the QB unit, then you are implying that no QB can develop under the above mentioned conditions you described. My question was not for anyone to answer who is to blame or the cause of White's lack of development if anyone thought that. If White is not going to continue to develop over these next 4 games then you must ask these questions, (1) Why did we not redshirt him?; (2) Should we play him a lot?; and (3) How do we protect him from getting hurt? There are probably more questions that can be asked, but these are the ones that immediately come to mind for me. Next season is a totally different ball game. I'm a here and now person because next year is not guaranteed. Fix what you can now on the offensive side of the ball and hopefully you can upgrade in the off season God Willing 🙏 . I reread my initial post and I stand corrected. I did ask the following, "If it has peaked, is his growth being limited by him, coaching, or both?" This is asking for an opinion on why his development may have ceased. My mistake. I am more interested in my first question as to his development over the last 5 games. |
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Oct 23, 2023 5:37:56 GMT -5
I'm a here and now person because next year is not guaranteed. Fix what you can now on the offensive side of the ball and hopefully you can upgrade in the off season God Willing 🙏 . I reread my initial post and I stand corrected. I did ask the following, "If it has peaked, is his growth being limited by him, coaching, or both?" This is asking for an opinion on why his development may have ceased. My mistake. I am more interested in my first question as to his development over the last 5 games. Yes White has shown development to me . 1. His use of the mid to short passing game. 2. His use of the horizontal and lateral movements to extend plays before turning up field to run..i.e Giving his receivers time to reset and work back/flow back to him and fine a open space . 3. What is most important to me that I saw in his game is his ability to point to himself as if to say my bad to one of his teammates after realizing that that individual should have been the one targeted but he chose to overlook him . This shows accountability and he is putting it together and the game is slowing down in his mind..i.e Seeing more of the field . The regress side is. 1. Tendencies to revert back to old habits and not work the system..i.e trying to do to much on his own when others/teammates can do it for you .But that is normal for a young player especially at the QB position. Has he peaked on the learning curve ? 1. No because he is slowly putting things/the pieces together and still growing as much as anyone can under-stress and in a stressful situation. 2. As the pieces around him improve and become more consistent in game . The game speed will slow down and his understanding and execution will improve and grow . 3. Coaches can only prepare you for a game to a point . Some adjustments can be made on the field by the players through communication. Example we played Cologne, I told my quarterback that the DB was giving me the inside on the slot route (deep slant) route and playing soft giving 10 yards of the line . I was not the primary I received the ball of my first stride in that LB and DB window it was the same play called by the OC but the ball was delivered quicker because of what the QB saw . That is where I want White to be able to recognize and execute and for our receivers to recognize that the ball can be coming there way at any moment in there routes . Which they are not doing at this moment. White is progressing more then regressing and no he has not peaked. |
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Post by DOOMS on Oct 23, 2023 6:42:33 GMT -5
Imo he needs to hand the ball off. A whole lot. From different formations with different blocking schemes. Say what you want, if Barnette was OC I’m willing to bet we’d be over 400 yards per game total offense right now with White at the helm. He NEVER had a qb with as much upside as White. We can let go of the tummy quakes over White not being redshirted. Hopefully coach will realize somebody else needs to work with the qbs and run the offense and switch some positions regardless of his feelings on continuity. Imo it remains to be see whether Whote has peaked with the current staff or not. There’s ultimately no way to know until the season has concluded. I know you are upset and all but let’s be realistic. I checked wssu stats and they are avg 299 yards a game, with a schedule that includes the likes of Shaw, Livingstone, St Aug, Lincoln and bluefield state…no shade to those schools but they aren’t powerhouse nationally ranked teams. Without even looking I know that's an increase over their offensive production from last year.... Got curious and looked it up. Barnette has Winston at 306 ypg right now. The first time they've been over 300 yards per game since at least 2019. Couldn't find any stats from prior to then. Were he still here working with the prior offensive staff, staff continuity alone would be worth well over 150 additional yards. As for White, I'm not even going to say it's my opinion his growth is being limited by anything but the coaching. We're last in the nation. What more needs to be said? When you're a superior performer/competitor and stuff is starting to burn down around you, you generally start to press. That's what I believe we're starting to see here. |
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Oct 24, 2023 1:56:54 GMT -5
Wssu folks had that same argument, "we don't have talent" but Barnette is making these same no talent kids better each week. I felt like he and Coach Mattes worked well together. I said it at the time and still believe we made a big mistake letting Barnette go. Finding good coaches is not as easy as some of us think.
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AggieMac
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Post by AggieMac on Oct 24, 2023 8:15:49 GMT -5
Yeah if this was apples to apples the Barnette case would make more sense. We don't know what Barnette would have done this year if he had lost all of his talent at WR and had young QBs. Might be a little better but I wouldn't say so much. We act as if Barnette had these great passing concepts in his playbook. Last I remember, he never used his TEs either, and he lived on the jump ball with big time receivers which we don't have anymore.
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Post by JeffAggieFan on Oct 24, 2023 8:48:21 GMT -5
I think the next 4 games will be a good indicator for KJ. When you play top teams like Delaware and Villanova that might skew it a little bit.
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Post by AggieGroove on Oct 24, 2023 9:42:55 GMT -5
Wssu folks had that same argument, "we don't have talent" but Barnette is making these same no talent kids better each week. I felt like he and Coach Mattes worked well together. I said it at the time and still believe we made a big mistake letting Barnette go. Finding good coaches is not as easy as some of us think. I agree Decks and think Barnette was misaligned while he was here.... From the outside lookin in, I'm thinking the release of Barnette may be caused by the declining APR....some HCs believe that assistants have a duty to help academically struggling student athletes. Just my theory.... |
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