saabman
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Post by saabman on Nov 1, 2023 17:15:52 GMT -5
You all kill me with this "winning with someone else's players" when that assistant was on staff and helped recruit players. Many times the assistant was more instrumental in recruiting than the head coach. Go back to 2019 and see how we ended the year putting up 63 points against Alcorn in the CB. For that season the team averaged over 38ppg. Then we took dang near two years off due to covid. Amazingly we all expected the team to pick up where we left off? Finished 5-6 in 2021 and improved to 7-4 2023. He had things he needed to improve upon but was still one of the better O.C's during my time watching Aggie Football over the last 35 years. If we're not careful we will go thru 4 or 5 more years of futility before we come up with a good one. It's not an easy task. We should have learned our lesson on that from previous experiences. Lastly, you don't go from 7-4 to 1-7 worst in the nation offensively because of talent. Yes it can happen especially when most of the returning talent rarely played a Significant role , so that they are able to step in . A&T didn't develop its back up talent at the needed positions..i.e QB,DL and receivers position. All the athletes we had with experience were the Defensive secondary, LB,DE,RB and a OL (that's playing inconsistent Right now . We have close to 12 O linemen and we can not put a functional consistent O line together đ with a proven O line coach đ . I don't think it's the O line coach so it has to be the talent.
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Post by aggieblackie2 on Nov 1, 2023 18:50:10 GMT -5
Man Bump Barnette and the horse he rode in on. Why are we even discussing him. If he was any good he would still be here.
I get so tired of people talking about Broadway and Barnette. They are gone. Appreciated Coach Broadway when he was here but that was years ago.
We need to concentrate on this coaching staff and support them.
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aggieclt
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Post by aggieclt on Nov 1, 2023 19:17:50 GMT -5
Man Bump Barnette and the horse he rode in on. Why are we even discussing him. If he was any good he would still be here. I get so tired of people talking about Broadway and Barnette. They are gone. Appreciated Coach Broadway when he was here but that was years ago. We need to concentrate on this coaching staff and support them. Thank you
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Post by crowntownaggie on Nov 1, 2023 21:21:46 GMT -5
Plano, I donât disagree because sometimes the signs are clear by the second year but it does make more sense to allow a new coach two full recruiting cycles after his first season in CFB. In regards neighborhoodâs comment about the current OC, I think he has shown he is capable at some of his other spots just from reviewing what info is available on him. He did a good job at Colgate, I remember the QB he had at Elon getting some decent praise as well, and we all knew W&M was a top dog in the CAA due to us moving into the conference. Iâd like to see the offense figure out how to implement whatever does work to the strengths our players do have and to build from there. A few folks pointed out the progress over the last couple of games so hopefully that trend continues to gain more traction. Iâd be understanding of moving on from a coordinator sooner than the HC for what itâs worth. Edit: forgot that the OC did not come from W&M with Brown and was poached straight from Elon. You might wanna check his numbers at Colgate again. Far from impressive. Also he ainât have a thing to do with the qbs at Elon. Colgate averaged ~30 PPG in 3 of his 5 seasons as OC and that coincided with two of their best seasons in that decade. Theyâve scored 20+ all of four or five times since he left. You are right about Elon, according to their own write up of Young, he worked with WRs and helped that group rebound after disappointing performances in prior seasons. They specifically name one WR who went from no TDs to having 5 of the 16 among all WRs and how that players resurgence contributed to their QB having a rebound season that year and an even better one the following season. Iâm not saying that I know he is the right guy but he didnât leave his last two jobs on a bad foot like Barnette, that in itself is an upgrade for now.
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Nov 1, 2023 21:57:59 GMT -5
Plano, I donât disagree because sometimes the signs are clear by the second year but it does make more sense to allow a new coach two full recruiting cycles after his first season in CFB. In regards neighborhoodâs comment about the current OC, I think he has shown he is capable at some of his other spots just from reviewing what info is available on him. He did a good job at Colgate, I remember the QB he had at Elon getting some decent praise as well, and we all knew W&M was a top dog in the CAA due to us moving into the conference. Iâd like to see the offense figure out how to implement whatever does work to the strengths our players do have and to build from there. A few folks pointed out the progress over the last couple of games so hopefully that trend continues to gain more traction. Iâd be understanding of moving on from a coordinator sooner than the HC for what itâs worth. Edit: forgot that the OC did not come from W&M with Brown and was poached straight from Elon. You might wanna check his numbers at Colgate again. Far from impressive. Also he ainât have a thing to do with the qbs at Elon. But did they Colgate win ? I don't are how they look winning, just so they win .
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Nov 1, 2023 22:40:22 GMT -5
.......AND I QUESTION THAT!!!! DOES COACH BROWN KNOW WHAT AN OFFENSIVE COORDINADOR (HELL, DOES HE KNOW WHAT OFFENSE) LOOK LIKE!! It is scary how inept we are offensively.....we cannot be THIS BAD a year from now. If so, I'm done with the entire staff. You can't be 122nd for 2 straight years.....opine like Nat King Cole at the weekly press conferences and say "It's a great day in AggieLand"......and think this isht is gonna continue to slide. Be prepared to demand change because this is a 3-5 year project to respectability. It doesnât take 3-5 years to get out of being the 122nd offense in the nation. Iâve clearly stated that if we are producing the EXACT SAME RESULTS (ie. Not competitive AND sporting the worst offense in America)âŚ.he needs to go. If we go 3-8 next year and our offense moves up to 75th, I would consider that progress. None of us should expect NOR accept these exact same abysmal results for 2024. No one deserves a 3rd chance after finishing dead last after 2 chancesâŚ..Iâm not talking lastâŚ..DEAD LAST!
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Post by DOOMS on Nov 2, 2023 8:42:33 GMT -5
Colgate had two years where they passed for seven tds IN A SEASON on Youngâs watch as oc and qb coach. Not one, but two.
They only managed over 400 ypg once in his tenure.
They won in spite of his offenses, not because of them.
He was let go after a 10-2 season.
You donât (well, I wouldnât) hire an oc based off what the team accomplished in spite of his unit.
What recruit looks at those stats and says âthatâs the âexplosiveâ offense Iâm trying to play underâ?
Whether you think he was capable or not, Barnette (the topic of this thread) has produced against the teams he was called to produce against at the division 1, 2, and 3 level. Barnette would not have us anywhere near this terrible on offense. With his worst play calls and games heâs looked better than our best this year. At times Barnette would struggle, but it would always get figured out by the midpoint of the year. As much as I loathed a good portion of his offense, he produced. And even with the losses we took on offense, he wouldâve produced this year at a much greater rate than Young.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Nov 2, 2023 9:21:19 GMT -5
Barnette is not CAA OC material. If an OC is not CAA material, the discussion ends there for me. If ANY COACH is not CAA material, the discussion ends there. 2 things can be true, and likely are: 1) Barnette may be a little bit better than Young 2) Neither Barnette nor Young is CAA OC material
Now that we're in the CAA (not MEAC nor Big South), I don't see how it behooves us to talk about coaches who can't cut it on this level.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Nov 2, 2023 9:24:53 GMT -5
What is your criteria to determine if a OC is CAA material?
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Nov 2, 2023 9:54:53 GMT -5
You use the word criteria. The word I focus on is results....it's as simple as that to me. The results tell me if someone is "CAA material." Barnette's offenses didn't measure up to better competition last year. I've shown you all the stats when Barnette had to step up last year and play tougher competition (ie. NCCU, ND St, and G-W). He didn't step up when the competition did....point blank. Frankly, I think Chris Young would have given us similar results to Barnette if he was our OC last year. Folks just knew things were gonna get better after we beat Norfolk earlier this year. They haven't. Let's keep it real here.....Barnette was playing a bunch of Norfolk's LAST YEAR. Young has only 1 Norfolk this year.
Neither OC moves the meter for me....
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Nov 2, 2023 9:57:23 GMT -5
What is your criteria to determine if a OC is CAA material? I'm curious about that as well. This conference is not as tough as we make it out to be. Evidenced by the fact, MEAC won the season series 6-5. Would have been 7-5 if Morgan's homecoming hadn't been canceled. Seems to me that if you can be successful in the MEAC then you can be successful in the CAA.
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Post by DOOMS on Nov 2, 2023 10:21:52 GMT -5
Barnette is not CAA OC material. If an OC is not CAA material, the discussion ends there for me. If ANY COACH is not CAA material, the discussion ends there. 2 things can be true, and likely are: 1) Barnette may be a little bit better than Young 2) Neither Barnette nor Young is CAA OC material Now that we're in the CAA (not MEAC nor Big South), I don't see how it behooves us to talk about coaches who can't cut it on this level. Channeling my inner Drax... 1. How do you KNOW Barnette is not CAA OC material? 2. If the discussion ends there for you, then move on. If not, don't say it does. 3. Barnette MAY be a LITTLE bit better than Young? He's light years better. 4. How do you KNOW Barnette nor Young (Young isn't, obviously, but) is CAA OC material?
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Post by westcoastaggie on Nov 2, 2023 10:45:56 GMT -5
What is your criteria to determine if a OC is CAA material? I'm curious about that as well. This conference is not as tough as we make it out to be. Evidenced by the fact, MEAC won the season series 6-5. Would have been 7-5 if Morgan's homecoming hadn't been canceled. Seems to me that if you can be successful in the MEAC then you can be successful in the CAA. 1 year isnât a sign that the conference was usurped by the MEAC in terms of coaching and talent. How many of those wins came from NCCU BTW?
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Nov 2, 2023 10:54:20 GMT -5
Colgate had two years where they passed for seven tds IN A SEASON on Youngâs watch as oc and qb coach. Not one, but two. They only managed over 400 ypg once in his tenure. They won in spite of his offenses, not because of them. He was let go after a 10-2 season. You donât (well, I wouldnât) hire an oc based off what the team accomplished in spite of his unit. What recruit looks at those stats and says âthatâs the âexplosiveâ offense Iâm trying to play underâ? Whether you think he was capable or not, Barnette (the topic of this thread) has produced against the teams he was called to produce against at the division 1, 2, and 3 level. Barnette would not have us anywhere near this terrible on offense. With his worst play calls and games heâs looked better than our best this year. At times Barnette would struggle, but it would always get figured out by the midpoint of the year. As much as I loathed a good portion of his offense, he produced. And even with the losses we took on offense, he wouldâve produced this year at a much greater rate than Young. I understand what your saying Dooms trust me I do . And I agree that his passing game numbers were not top 100th numbers hell top 120 lol. My view is the type of athletes that Colgate and programs like Colgate recruit..i.e Ivy League program. Most programs Ivy League programs do not Crack the Top 129 in D1 recruitment rankings and outside of the Creme de La Creme programs like Harvard, Princeton, Yale and sometimes Brown at the FCS level most are not in the top 10 or 20 . But Young Won games and scored points by what ever means he won games that all "I" care about. Teams like Colgate recruit for team and system Fit..i.e Run pass or both And then plugged that Talent into there system which makes it easier for and OC , because he doesn't have to really change a recruits natural instincts or tendencies and isn't removed that far from his comfort zone just add to it at this level . Also Time with talent is important! One spring practice does not give you a true gage of what system will really be the identity of your talent and what an OC wants to do and can do especially when most of that talent is inexperienced talent at your Skill positions . I'm not saying Young is a Good Bad or Great OC but I am saying let the season play out and give the man his shot to prove or not prove that he is up to the task . Also North and South Dakota are barely ranked in the top 10 in recruiting but yet they continue to dominate the FCS landscape. By recruiting the talent that fit.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Nov 2, 2023 11:04:12 GMT -5
Barnette is not CAA OC material. If an OC is not CAA material, the discussion ends there for me. If ANY COACH is not CAA material, the discussion ends there. 2 things can be true, and likely are: 1) Barnette may be a little bit better than Young 2) Neither Barnette nor Young is CAA OC material Now that we're in the CAA (not MEAC nor Big South), I don't see how it behooves us to talk about coaches who can't cut it on this level. Channeling my inner Drax... 1. How do you KNOW Barnette is not CAA OC material? 2. If the discussion ends there for you, then move on. If not, don't say it does. 3. Barnette MAY be a LITTLE bit better than Young? He's light years better. 4. How do you KNOW Barnette nor Young (Young isn't, obviously, but) is CAA OC material? What are people not getting with what I'm saying? Barnette did not win a big game vs quality competition in 2021 and 2022. In our 3 biggest FCS games in 2022, he mustered a grand total of 3 points in the 2nd half of all of these games. The Central game was in reach at halftime; the G-W (Big South championship game) was within reach at halftime....... ZERO POINTS IN THE 2ND HALF IN BOTH GAMES.If y'all want to highlight the exploits of our 2022 offense against the likes of South Carolina St, Bryant, Edward freakin Waters, Robert Morris, Norfolk State and Charleson Southern and somehow equate that to Barnette being ready for in's and out's of the CAA.....go right ahead. I ain't. Let's even go back to 2021: Y'all remember that Kennesaw St game in 2021.....it was undefeated A&T vs undefeated Kennessaw......how many points did our offense score in that game........the answer: ZEROY'all remember homecoming 2021 when we played a quality Monmouth team.........we lost 35-16.......how many point did our offense score in the 2nd half.....the answer: ZERODidn't we have more offensive talent in 2021 and 2022 than this year? Yet when it was time for these more offensively talented units to perform in meaningful games......Barnette repeatedly produced THUDSI'm a big believer in past behavior predicting future behavior. I can't have an OC underperforming in previous big games in conferences weaker than the one we're in now, thinking he's gonna miraculously turn into Kyle Shanahan in the CAA. I have given you FACT AFTER FACT AFTER FACT AFTER FACT........from which I have formulated my OPINION as why I believe Barnette IS NOT CAA material. It has nothing to do with the cologne he wears It has nothing to do with the car he drives It has nothing to do with where he lives In BIG/MEANINGFUL games in 2021 an 2022.....he produced PALTRY OFFENSIVE RESULTS that ended in us losing convincingly in all of those games.....and with MUCH BETTER TALENT than what Young has now. If you disagree with what I'm saying......COOL WITH ME. I'm not gonna cape for a man whose cape came off everytime the competition got tougher over the past 2 years..... Again....we can agree to disagree.
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