Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Aug 18, 2019 8:31:53 GMT -5
I still believe that "the game" would be different for the school that is able to break the barrier and become the first FBS HBCU. My parents said there was no way there would ever be a Black president in their lifetime. They were right, but Obama was elected 5 years after my parents passed away. Keep hope alive!
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Post by captaggie on Aug 18, 2019 9:07:22 GMT -5
I 'feel' we can make it. My concern is whether we could sustain it.
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Post by DOOMS on Aug 18, 2019 9:54:35 GMT -5
As long as we take steps and as indicated have a solid 7-8 year plan to get there. FAMU just jumped in ....no conference as an independent (them against the world) I understand the hesitation about Martin not taking this all the way but that’s life no different than a CEO with a vision for a new product and setting the stage (research & devlopment) but not being the CEO to launch the product. A CEO Chancellor should have 5-10 year vision to ensure we remain relevant and able to grow I'd have to ask Aggierattler to weigh in on this but the rumor was FAMU had an invite to the sunbelt conference that was dependent on financing or something like that. Financing fell through and the rest was history. Rumor might be off though. Now this ain't a rumor. Martin had a CEO vision for Winston to be a premier MEAC member and division I hbcu. He left and now they are a middle of the pack CIAA member and division II hbcu. They lived off of the fruits of the failed division I bid and skills of Bill Hayes and Connell Maynor for a bit, but that time has passed and I'm not sure they're not worse off for it. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it if we had the money in our endowment and in the budget. But we have neither. Our endowment is less than 1/4 of UNCGs and half of FAMUs. All that and every little black mark in our system would be front page news. I'm also realistic about our peers. Their current goals are to beat us, period. Our goals are higher than that but if our defense is as bad as we expect this year this thread is over before it starts and our conference-mates' dreams will be realized. I'm with Aggie77 on this one. Until I see something other than "speaktalk" that somebody heard the Chancellor say in meeting, this is a big nothing burger. Talk is cheap, but funding even a low level FBS football program ain't. What's our total athletic budget now; $15m? I don't think double is enough, I don't think triple is enough.
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Post by aggieforlife on Aug 18, 2019 9:54:47 GMT -5
We need different mind set on recruiting it have to be for all races.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Aug 18, 2019 10:35:18 GMT -5
We already recruit all races, both athletically and academically. I am not sure what you are talking about.
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Aug 18, 2019 10:37:45 GMT -5
I still believe that "the game" would be different for the school that is able to break the barrier and become the first FBS HBCU. My parents said there was no way there would ever be a Black president in their lifetime. They were right, but Obama was elected 5 years after my parents passed away. Keep hope alive! No one s saying that Maxwell . I can not speak of others only for myself . With me it's about sustainability . WT joined the Missouri Valley Conference in 1972 the financial burden was so much that it had to drop Football all together in 1985 to regroup because the cost to play at that level was just to taxing for the school to keep pace with . This is not about it can not happen as much as it is can you stay at that level over time .
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Aug 18, 2019 10:52:27 GMT -5
I still believe that "the game" would be different for the school that is able to break the barrier and become the first FBS HBCU. My parents said there was no way there would ever be a Black president in their lifetime. They were right, but Obama was elected 5 years after my parents passed away. Keep hope alive! No one s saying that Maxwell . I can not speak of others only for myself . With me it's about sustainability . WT joined the Missouri Valley Conference in 1972 the financial burden was so much that it had to drop Football all together in 1985 to regroup because the cost to play at that level was just to taxing for the school to keep pace with . This is not about it can not happen as much as it is can you stay at that level over time . Your example was still a 13-year run. Get there first! I'd take a 13-year stint at the FBS level. That's just like Tarik saying that the average run for an NFL running back is three years. He's in his third year. Ask him has it been worth it. Ask Bam if coming out early was worth it and he hasn't even made the team yet. At this point in the process, enjoy the adventure. Stop worrying so much.
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Post by DOOMS on Aug 18, 2019 11:00:29 GMT -5
You're comparing individuals to a whole school's sports team Maxell. That's not a fair comparison.
What if we'd gone through with an attempt and then had to drop the football team before Tarik or Bam had graduated high school. That means Tarik might've ended up in the Navy and Bam would be on Monday Night Football claiming Savannah State, not to mention countless others who wouldn't have an opportunity because we jumped with no legs.
At our current pace the storyline of the "small" hbcu that continues to put guys in the draft in the modern era is more appealing to me. Remember that "we can be the new Grambing" thread I started eons ago. We're getting there on our current trajectory. A failed move to fbs land and we could go back to being the new Prairie View, which is what we were not that long ago. I have not forgotten. One misstep is all it takes.
If we can't endow it so that it pays for itself and is competitive yearly, I see no point in even dreaming about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 11:05:56 GMT -5
You're comparing individuals to a whole school's sports team Maxell. That's not a fair comparison. What if we'd gone through with an attempt and then had to drop the football team before Tarik or Bam had graduated high school. That means Tarik might've ended up in the Navy and Bam would be on Monday Night Football claiming Savannah State, not to mention countless others who wouldn't have an opportunity because we jumped with no legs. At our current pace the storyline of the "small" hbcu that continues to put guys in the draft in the modern era is more appealing to me. Remember that "we can be the new Grambing" thread I started eons ago. We're getting there on our current trajectory. A failed move to fbs land and we could go back to being the new Prairie View, which is what we were not that long ago. I have not forgotten. One misstep is all it takes. If we can't endow it so that it pays for itself and is competitive yearly, I see no point in even dreaming about it. "Proper planning prevents piss-poor performance." The difference between FAMU and NCAT in this will be the careful planning the AD, Chancellor and Trustees will complete long before any invitation from the Sun Belt or any G5 conference. Now what may happen first, I believe, is we would leave the MEAC for another FCS conference first. More than likely, that would be the Big South. That's if and only if they feel like we have the budget and projections to afford such a move. Right now, it's very unlikely. For example, our Lock TV needs tons of work before we can even look to join one of those other conferences.
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Post by AggiePride on Aug 18, 2019 11:44:57 GMT -5
As long as we take steps and as indicated have a solid 7-8 year plan to get there. FAMU just jumped in ....no conference as an independent (them against the world) I understand the hesitation about Martin not taking this all the way but that’s life no different than a CEO with a vision for a new product and setting the stage (research & devlopment) but not being the CEO to launch the product. A CEO Chancellor should have 5-10 year vision to ensure we remain relevant and able to grow I'd have to ask Aggierattler to weigh in on this but the rumor was FAMU had an invite to the sunbelt conference that was dependent on financing or something like that. Financing fell through and the rest was history. Rumor might be off though. Now this ain't a rumor. Martin had a CEO vision for Winston to be a premier MEAC member and division I hbcu. He left and now they are a middle of the pack CIAA member and division II hbcu. They lived off of the fruits of the failed division I bid and skills of Bill Hayes and Connell Maynor for a bit, but that time has passed and I'm not sure they're not worse off for it. I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it if we had the money in our endowment and in the budget. But we have neither. Our endowment is less than 1/4 of UNCGs and half of FAMUs. All that and every little black mark in our system would be front page news. I'm also realistic about our peers. Their current goals are to beat us, period. Our goals are higher than that but if our defense is as bad as we expect this year this thread is over before it starts and our conference-mates' dreams will be realized. I'm with Aggie77 on this one. Until I see something other than "speaktalk" that somebody heard the Chancellor say in meeting, this is a big nothing burger. Talk is cheap, but funding even a low level FBS football program ain't. What's our total athletic budget now; $15m? I don't think double is enough, I don't think triple is enough. Dooms speaking facts. This is a nice aspirational idea, but we not are maximizing our potential now. We play D1 on every level but football and are we competitive outside of the MEAC in those sports (t&f is making noise, but when was the last time we won in the NCAA tournament in any sport?). We need to get these soccer teams rolling! I am more concerned with our endowment than playing FBS football.
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Post by DOOMS on Aug 18, 2019 11:50:06 GMT -5
Ultimately I think we're better off trying to follow the North Dakota State model than the App State model. We'll make more noise if we continue to be that hbcu that knocks off an fbs team than if we win a lower (lowest, even) fbs conference.
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aggie2039
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Post by aggie2039 on Aug 18, 2019 12:26:27 GMT -5
Ultimately I think we're better off trying to follow the North Dakota State model than the App State model. We'll make more noise if we continue to be that hbcu that knocks off an fbs team than if we win a lower (lowest, even) fbs conference. What good is the NDSU model? Their athletics budget is bigger than FBS schools and no one outside of avid football fans know the school exists 🤷🏾♂️. Outside of football we are more of a nationally recognized brand than them...y should we spend $25M to compete for a FCS national championship when that won’t increase our national brand like being in the FBS will. I’d rather spend $25M to be FBS than to continue to be FCS🤷🏾♂️.
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Post by DOOMS on Aug 18, 2019 12:37:33 GMT -5
Let me rephrase.
I'd rather do like North Dakota State does and gain notoriety from beating FBS schools as an FCS school than joining the FBS.
That's what I meant.
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Post by codeblu78 on Aug 18, 2019 12:50:14 GMT -5
Dr Martin knows our brand is on FIRE! CB championships; Players to the NFL 3 consecutive years; Men & Women T&F; record enrollment, etc, etc! If this trend continues, the sky is the limit.
Gotta love the vision!!!
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Aug 18, 2019 13:14:58 GMT -5
You're comparing individuals to a whole school's sports team Maxell. That's not a fair comparison. What if we'd gone through with an attempt and then had to drop the football team before Tarik or Bam had graduated high school. That means Tarik might've ended up in the Navy and Bam would be on Monday Night Football claiming Savannah State, not to mention countless others who wouldn't have an opportunity because we jumped with no legs. At our current pace the storyline of the "small" hbcu that continues to put guys in the draft in the modern era is more appealing to me. Remember that "we can be the new Grambing" thread I started eons ago. We're getting there on our current trajectory. A failed move to fbs land and we could go back to being the new Prairie View, which is what we were not that long ago. I have not forgotten. One misstep is all it takes. If we can't endow it so that it pays for itself and is competitive yearly, I see no point in even dreaming about it. As far as your what if scenarios, we're not talking about before Tarik and Bam, we're talking about now. That means we have success of every player we've sent to the league to build on rather than conjecture about. It IS a fair comparison because I'm talking about a mindset. Both individuals and sports teams have a mindset that either propels them forward or keeps them stagnant. I completely understand your points, but a vision can still exist that is bigger than the one you described. I can easily see a progression that goes: MEAC Championship(s) > Celebration Bowl Championship(s) > FCS Championship(s) > FBS Membership, of which we are already half-way through. Remember ten years ago an MEAC Conference Championship was stretch, and a bowl game on national TV didn't even exist. The difference is our end states are different. Nothing wrong with that at all. Grambling has already been Grambling. No need to artificially replicate that and make that our end state. Visionaries are special people because they are usually the only ones that can see what they see. More power to them.
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