Maxell
Official BDF member
Director of BDF Marketing
Posts: 12,438
|
Post by Maxell on Apr 4, 2014 14:32:29 GMT -5
I am convinced that in order to consistently win championships in FB, MBB,and WBB that A&T must adopt a strategy that purposefully includes major college transfers. There is no doubt that the best black athletes are not coming to HBCUs as their first choices for various reasons. And good white athletes need an environment that makes them comfortable to come to an HBCU, what ever that may mean.
We've adopted a "coach 'em up" strategy in order to maximize talent and Broadway is using creative ways to upgrade the coaching staff. But I do not think that alone will be enough to reach athletic excellence and sustain it in today's climate. The answer will lie in major college transfers.
In WBB, Coach Bibbs knew it. Coach Robinson gets it. And I think Broadway knows it, too but has not yet looked at it aggressively but I hope he will. I think last year we had three on our football roster but in football it will take closer to 6 or 7 transfers to make a difference. In basketball I think the number is 1 or 2. Hate if you will on WSSU football, but they figured it out. Granted there is a different set of rules for DII but you have to work it within the rules you are given. Maynor will certainly pursue it at Hampton.
Chancellor Martin wants to perennially have 5 MEAC champions each year by 2020. In order to do that, FB, MBB, WBB and maybe even VB must adopt a solid transfer stategy. For the other non-revenue sports, we have to continue to upgrade coaching and recruiting. In baseball and softball it's about pitching. Track seems to be headed in the right direction by building up distance and field events. Bowling continues to improve as Del State and UMES gets better. Tennis, golf and soccer are TBD.
|
|
@ProfBellamy
Official BDF member
Aggie Born, Aggie Bred
Posts: 764
|
Post by @ProfBellamy on Apr 4, 2014 15:59:58 GMT -5
We need to begin building partnerships with the community college programs in the area too. GTCC has basketball programs and if those students utilize the academic pathways they can still graduate on time and use their eligibility wisely. I know there are some discussions about also extending JUCO eligibility to 3 years so I don't know the NCAA impact, but community college transfers can help graduation in a HUGE way.
|
|
|
Post by bigpeete1 on Apr 4, 2014 16:30:36 GMT -5
WE MUST FIRST START WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS AND THEN WE WILL BECOME MORE ATTRACTIVE TO D-1 TRANSFERS. BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME!
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Apr 4, 2014 17:30:34 GMT -5
How many transfers North Dakota State have?
That being typed, I actually agree with you. We can't win the way NDSU wins.
That being typed, I think there's a ceiling on what we can hope to accomplish as a d-1 hbcu program, and we've already dang near hit it. APR makes transfer shopping risky. We've already seen what happens when we get a bunch of transfers and "big time" players.
Truth be told, some of our better teams had a transfer or three, but were senior-dominated. Getting them as freshmen, developing them slowly, and playing them as redshirt jrs and srs works for us.
|
|
Maxell
Official BDF member
Director of BDF Marketing
Posts: 12,438
|
Post by Maxell on Apr 4, 2014 18:23:12 GMT -5
One. It's funny you mention NDSU. I actually did look at their roster before starting this thread. Most of their roster is from the midwest. They have the advantage of attracting the very good white athlete that because of size or speed didn't catch the eye of the majors. We can't attract many of them.
Sometimes because of pride we would like to believe that we can do it only with high schoolers but we can't. The gap has become too large. Once mid major private schools decided they wanted to be good 20 years ago the game changed. A kid choosing between us and James Madison will probably choose James Madison. The kids that are going to Towson now would have gone to Morgan or Howard 20 years ago. Those schools have changed the game with facilities for the most part.
bigpeete1 -- ask WSSU which came first. DOOMS --- Bethune had 6 major college transfers on their roster last year. I think that's managable. Add three more impact players to this year's squad and you can talk championship without mincing your words. The problem is we haven't been able to sustain dominant senior class approach. See this year's basketball team. we always end up feast or famine. That's we have to have a healthy mix of transfers.
|
|
|
Post by noexcuses on Apr 5, 2014 7:38:06 GMT -5
One. It's funny you mention NDSU. I actually did look at their roster before starting this thread. Most of their roster is from the midwest. They have the advantage of attracting the very good white athlete that because of size or speed didn't catch the eye of the majors. We can't attract many of them. Sometimes because of pride we would like to believe that we can do it only with high schoolers but we can't. The gap has become too large. Once mid major private schools decided they wanted to be good 20 years ago the game changed. A kid choosing between us and James Madison will probably choose James Madison. The kids that are going to Towson now would have gone to Morgan or Howard 20 years ago. Those schools have changed the game with facilities for the most part. bigpeete1 -- ask WSSU which came first. DOOMS --- Bethune had 6 major college transfers on their roster last year. I think that's managable. Add three more impact players to this year's squad and you can talk championship without mincing your words. The problem is we haven't been able to sustain dominant senior class approach. See this year's basketball team. we always end up feast or famine. That's we have to have a healthy mix of transfers.
|
|
|
Post by noexcuses on Apr 5, 2014 8:02:56 GMT -5
One. It's funny you mention NDSU. I actually did look at their roster before starting this thread. Most of their roster is from the midwest. They have the advantage of attracting the very good white athlete that because of size or speed didn't catch the eye of the majors. We can't attract many of them. Sometimes because of pride we would like to believe that we can do it only with high schoolers but we can't. The gap has become too large. Once mid major private schools decided they wanted to be good 20 years ago the game changed. A kid choosing between us and James Madison will probably choose James Madison. The kids that are going to Towson now would have gone to Morgan or Howard 20 years ago. Those schools have changed the game with facilities for the most part. bigpeete1 -- ask WSSU which came first. DOOMS --- Bethune had 6 major college transfers on their roster last year. I think that's managable. Add three more impact players to this year's squad and you can talk championship without mincing your words. The problem is we haven't been able to sustain dominant senior class approach. See this year's basketball team. we always end up feast or famine. That's we have to have a healthy mix of transfers. Maxwell,YOU HIT THE NAIL on the HEAD.D-I transfers are a MUST in football,BUT until we Win AND start getting position coaches from D-I programs instead of the CatawbaS of the world,they will go to SC State, JMU,North DAKOTA State, BCookman, etc. In WBB Robinson DID IT for Bibbs and is now doing it Well for his own program!! Men's Basketball,baseball,and softball Are Yet to get Much Needed HELP from this D-I pool.
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Apr 5, 2014 8:10:31 GMT -5
Max, the problem is, that stuff works for Bethune (and Hampton). They're private. We haven't learned how to do it.
Remember FAMU's heydays in the late 90s? Transfer heavy, and there was no APR back then. And they STILL ended up in trouble with the NCAA.
If there's a way for a d-1 hbcu in a bad conference based in a state with a ridiculously large number of football-playing schools to win on a national scale on the gridiron, it involves outspending the competition. We have to recruit the earth, get our name out there, and let the best students with the most potential know we exist and get them to give us a serious look.
At work some dudes were talking about college athletes and the lack of education they're getting. I jumped in and talked about how major schools force kids, even smart ones, to major in catchall majors that will keep them eligible (and unemployed once they graduate, unless they go into coaching). I explained that if you look at Georgia Tech, an engineering school, the only football players on their roster that major in engineering are walk-ons that never play. I told them that up to 2/3 of players at my alma mater at one point majored in engineering, and we ended up in APR trouble. Not necessarily only because we let so many major in actual majors, but that was a part of it.
I think Broadway's doing it the best way. He's recruiting kids that will grow in the program, get better, and graduate. Years ago I predicted the most stable program in this conference would be the one that built with predominately players straight out of high school. That was SC State. And I was right.
SC State is broke as hell, sits in a small state with a lot of football-playing schools, yet is always in the mix and to my knowledge never had a lick of APR trouble. Point blank, Buddy ain't all that great of a coach.
We have to recruit guys to fit what we're trying to do on the field and off the field. Not that many of them transfer from major colleges. Broadway understands this. Honestly, I'd be wary of a kid that transfered for "football-reasons." His head's in the wrong place.
I don't think you establish a stable program depending on transfers year after year. You need redshirt juniors and seniors that you groomed from the time they hit campus as freshmen. If it was me, I'd be scouring the smaller state high schools and build a pipeline consisting of tough farm boys that are overlooked by the bigger programs until it's too late. Get that pipeline going and graduate them kids, and you have a program.
|
|
|
Post by durhamgsoaggie on Apr 5, 2014 8:28:33 GMT -5
Max, the problem is, that stuff works for Bethune (and Hampton). They're private. We haven't learned how to do it. Remember FAMU's heydays in the late 90s? Transfer heavy, and there was no APR back then. And they STILL ended up in trouble with the NCAA. If there's a way for a d-1 hbcu in a bad conference based in a state with a ridiculously large number of football-playing schools to win on a national scale on the gridiron, it involves outspending the competition. We have to recruit the earth, get our name out there, and let the best students with the most potential know we exist and get them to give us a serious look. At work some dudes were talking about college athletes and the lack of education they're getting. I jumped in and talked about how major schools force kids, even smart ones, to major in catchall majors that will keep them eligible (and unemployed once they graduate, unless they go into coaching). I explained that if you look at Georgia Tech, an engineering school, the only football players on their roster that major in engineering are walk-ons that never play. I told them that up to 2/3 of players at my alma mater at one point majored in engineering, and we ended up in APR trouble. Not necessarily only because we let so many major in actual majors, but that was a part of it. I think Broadway's doing it the best way. He's recruiting kids that will grow in the program, get better, and graduate. Years ago I predicted the most stable program in this conference would be the one that built with predominately players straight out of high school. That was SC State. And I was right. SC State is broke as hell, sits in a small state with a lot of football-playing schools, yet is always in the mix and to my knowledge never had a lick of APR trouble. Point blank, Buddy ain't all that great of a coach. We have to recruit guys to fit what we're trying to do on the field and off the field. Not that many of them transfer from major colleges. Broadway understands this. Honestly, I'd be wary of a kid that transfered for "football-reasons." His head's in the wrong place. I don't think you establish a stable program depending on transfers year after year. You need redshirt juniors and seniors that you groomed from the time they hit campus as freshmen. If it was me, I'd be scouring the smaller state high schools and build a pipeline consisting of tough farm boys that are overlooked by the bigger programs until it's too late. Get that pipeline going and graduate them kids, and you have a program. +1
|
|
|
Post by marchingband1969 on Apr 5, 2014 11:57:26 GMT -5
Doom I agree 100% with your comments...I just want to add one point. You stated " SC State is broke as hell, sits in a small state with a lot of football-playing schools, yet is always in the mix and to my knowledge never had a lick of APR trouble." Despite having several large PWI football programs in the state, there are no other (State supported) HBCU's in South Carolina competing for the talent that SC State gets. I also believe their academic curriculum isn't as challenging as A&T. If Broadway consistently wins in this competitive recruiting environment and keeps our APR up, he will be very successful.
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Apr 5, 2014 12:16:40 GMT -5
You're absolutely right '69. Steat is the only state supported football playing hbcu in SC, and frankly, it ain't all that difficult of a school to make it through. I didn't count that in my statement.
Despite that, I still think their model works better for us than Cookman's. I just hope that we as a fan base have the patience and understanding to allow the coaches to do it.
|
|
|
Post by AggieGroove on Apr 5, 2014 13:36:58 GMT -5
This is a great topic and I believe Broadway and team have figured it out….
I am beginning to worry about Cy and the # of kids who have transferred out….but only time will tell!
|
|
Maxell
Official BDF member
Director of BDF Marketing
Posts: 12,438
|
Post by Maxell on Apr 5, 2014 15:51:30 GMT -5
Max, the problem is, that stuff works for Bethune (and Hampton). They're private. We haven't learned how to do it. Remember FAMU's heydays in the late 90s? Transfer heavy, and there was no APR back then. And they STILL ended up in trouble with the NCAA. If there's a way for a d-1 hbcu in a bad conference based in a state with a ridiculously large number of football-playing schools to win on a national scale on the gridiron, it involves outspending the competition. We have to recruit the earth, get our name out there, and let the best students with the most potential know we exist and get them to give us a serious look. At work some dudes were talking about college athletes and the lack of education they're getting. I jumped in and talked about how major schools force kids, even smart ones, to major in catchall majors that will keep them eligible (and unemployed once they graduate, unless they go into coaching). I explained that if you look at Georgia Tech, an engineering school, the only football players on their roster that major in engineering are walk-ons that never play. I told them that up to 2/3 of players at my alma mater at one point majored in engineering, and we ended up in APR trouble. Not necessarily only because we let so many major in actual majors, but that was a part of it. I think Broadway's doing it the best way. He's recruiting kids that will grow in the program, get better, and graduate. Years ago I predicted the most stable program in this conference would be the one that built with predominately players straight out of high school. That was SC State. And I was right. SC State is broke as hell, sits in a small state with a lot of football-playing schools, yet is always in the mix and to my knowledge never had a lick of APR trouble. Point blank, Buddy ain't all that great of a coach. We have to recruit guys to fit what we're trying to do on the field and off the field. Not that many of them transfer from major colleges. Broadway understands this. Honestly, I'd be wary of a kid that transfered for "football-reasons." His head's in the wrong place. I don't think you establish a stable program depending on transfers year after year. You need redshirt juniors and seniors that you groomed from the time they hit campus as freshmen. If it was me, I'd be scouring the smaller state high schools and build a pipeline consisting of tough farm boys that are overlooked by the bigger programs until it's too late. Get that pipeline going and graduate them kids, and you have a program. ....and what did SCSU do? Go to playoffs and lose, period. You're right. Do what SCSU did and get what SCSU got. Broadway,Moton, Bibbs ain't stupid. Yes, you establish a stable program by doing the things you have mentioned. We're doing that. Now it's time to build a program beats the hell out most opponents, and wins close games against tough opponents. Remember "Beatdowns Unlimited"? Remember Amber and Brittanie? That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about either/or. We have to get good high school recruits AND transfers. APR -- do your due dilligence on each player and make an informed decision. Again for football I'm talking 5 or 6 players.
|
|
|
Post by bigpeete1 on Apr 5, 2014 16:33:40 GMT -5
LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THE MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS THE AGGIES WIN, THE MORE ATTRACTIVE THEY WILL BECOME. BROADWAY IS ON THE RIGHT COURSE AND COACH CY IS STILL SEARCHING. THERE WILL BE MORE TRANSFERS.
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Apr 6, 2014 8:20:48 GMT -5
....and what did SCSU do? Go to playoffs and lose, period. You're right. Do what SCSU did and get what SCSU got. Broadway,Moton, Bibbs ain't stupid. Yes, you establish a stable program by doing the things you have mentioned. We're doing that. Now it's time to build a program beats the hell out most opponents, and wins close games against tough opponents. Remember "Beatdowns Unlimited"? Remember Amber and Brittanie? That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about either/or. We have to get good high school recruits AND transfers. APR -- do your due dilligence on each player and make an informed decision. Again for football I'm talking 5 or 6 players. You have a definite point, and I hated to have to base a model for success off what SCSCU did. Years ago we were debating something or another and somebody said we should base our model off what Hampton was doing at the time (getting good high school recruits AND transfers) and I went slap off because I noted Hampton hadn't done diddly-squat come playoff time. The problem is NOBODY in the conference has done diddly-squat come playoff time. So who can we really base a proper model on? I figure we can move to d-2 and take transfers galore, temper our expectations in d-1, or double to triple our athletics budget. As far as basketball, I really couldn't care less so I didn't comment on it. It's not a sport that interests me very much, so other than skimming what people on here have typed, I don't remember "Beatdowns Unlimited." I'm just hoping that "Beatdowns Unlimited" doesn't end up leading to "APR Limited" at some point. As far as taking five or six players, I think we pretty much do that already (three or four I guess). When you started the topic I thought you meant going transfer heavy like Hampton and FAMU used to do or like WSSU does every year. So what are you advocating that's different from what we already do? And what positions too? I remember we got a d-lineman from Nebraska. He didn't last long. We got a receiver (a big un too) from Navy, didn't make it past spring practice. A qb from South Carolina, couldn't pass a drug test. A wide receiver from Florida, was woefully underutilized. I think Broadway's done an excellent job of bringing in a guy or three who will contribute and graduate. And with the APR standards and our historical failure to adhere to them, I'm behind him.
|
|