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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 2, 2007 14:28:29 GMT -5
Well said, aggiechamp. I agree with your entire post.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 2, 2007 14:30:29 GMT -5
Well except for maybe the breach of contract part. I still would like to hear what a legal eagle says about that.
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Post by jaffejoffa on Dec 2, 2007 15:27:54 GMT -5
AggieChamp..Is it not misleading that you are getting paid to do a job, but havent done it ? He is paid to be the OC, and is not doing that job. That is the reason why he is so highly compensated. If you think that by letting this guy stay around and coach will help the morale of this program, then you're out of your mind. The longer he stays, the bigger hole we'll be in. If I know that I am not competent in my job, then I am not going to stick around and fail time and time again. He's not the OC because he cant do the job and is not competent in X's and O's. Even after losing 22 straight games, he did not take over play calling responsibilities. Not once. But we're paying the guy 170K, and you say let him take the cash and stick around ?!
-Aggie Champ, you speak of us honoring our committments to coaches. What about Fobbs honoring his committment to us. Do you not think that its misleading to be compensated as a head coach, and OC, while you only perform one of those duties ?
If you dont perform on your job, your going to lose it. Just as Fobbs will take a players scholarship who doesnt perform, same logic should be used with him. Yall want to give dude a free pass, when he has already proven uncapable of the task at hand. How more unstable can we get ?!
As you can see, college programs around the country are on the move and will not settle for mediocrity. The coaching carousel is always moving, and those content with being nice to folks and honoring peoples "contracts" when they havent done a job will be the ones left behind. Obviously we cant fire Fobbs (for unspecified reason) so the honorable for him to do is to get paid on a scale congruent with his current job responsibilities.
AggieChamp, do you realize that we are talking about a man who is 0-22 as a career head coach? Give him time? I'm glad I went to church, this morning so I'll hold my tounge..
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Post by aggiechamp on Dec 2, 2007 17:01:29 GMT -5
Read the entire comment. I didn't say give him time. I said, if you want a world class program then you play by the world's rules. Buy out Fobb's contract if you don't desire his services. Don't question his integrity because he doesn't resign. He has no obligation to resign because he has lost games. If there IS/WAS a clause in his contract that says you will resign if you go 0 and 22 then enforce it. Otherwise live with the contract or pay him out. Stop whining that the only honorable thing for him to do is to resign when he does not resign. Fobbs commitment to us was to give us his best efforts to have a successful football program. Our commitment to him was if he used his best efforts and didn't violate the rules or commit some crime we would pay him his due. It might have been a bad bargain but he has done what he contracted to do. Buy him out if you are unsatisfied. Finally, it should be obvious that we agreed that Fobbs would handle the OC responsibility the way that he has. His immediate boss, Dee Todd, didn't say one word about the shift of the play calling to some else on the staff. If that was not what was contemplated in the contract then she should have spoken out and resolved that issue long before now. Finally, I don't believe any body on this board believed that Fobb's or any other coach could handle the all the OC responsibilities without assistance and manage the game as head coach also. This was solely a means to get our school the money to pay the candidate that we wanted to hire. Nothing more nothing less. It's the bargain we made. Either we live with it. We buy him out or we admit our mistake and fully fund an OC position in addition to his salary.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 2, 2007 17:09:51 GMT -5
The BDF has looked over his contract with a fine-toothed comb. There is no buyout clause and no benchmarks that he has to meet. He has 4 years guaranteed at $165,000 for being the head coach and OC.
There is no language that specifically says what would happen if he ever stopped being the OC.
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Post by jaffejoffa on Dec 2, 2007 17:29:25 GMT -5
Our commitment to him was if he used his best efforts and didn't violate the rules or commit some crime we would pay him his due. So would you call not being the OC and handling the OC responsiblities and duties violating the rules when he is being paid in that capacity ? I'm not calling into question his integrity for not resigning, I am saying that if he knows that he is in waaaay over his head and incompetent, then respectfully fall back instead of further running a once proud A&T program into the ground. No experienced coaches, lack of football expertise shown, horrible play calling, dispicable in game management should be growns to bring up breach of contract, even though I know that its not. Im gonna go tell my boss in the morning that I am only gonna do half of what Im paid to do, but i still want to be compensated at full price....
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Post by jaffejoffa on Dec 2, 2007 17:32:56 GMT -5
The BDF has looked over his contract with a fine-toothed comb. There is no buyout clause and no benchmarks that he has to meet. He has 4 years guaranteed at $165,000 for being the head coach and OC. There is no language that specifically says what would happen if he ever stopped being the OC. What the hell ? Whoever drew up and signed off on this contract should be jailed ..Did someone at the state level have to review this before it went into action? This negro definitley got over on A&T. No benchmarks? Gauranteed for someone with no winning record or headcoaching experience? 4 years ? No language about the combination of HC & OC duties?? The end really must be near.....
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 2, 2007 17:43:18 GMT -5
Dee Tood, Velma Speight-Buford and James C. Renick all signed off on the contract.
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Post by aggiechamp on Dec 2, 2007 17:52:04 GMT -5
I beg to differ. You are indeed questioning his intergrity when you say resigning is the only honorable thing for him to do. I believe that Fobb's is an honorable man. If you believe that Fobb's has not performed say that. That is a principled position. If you take that position and believe that he should be fired, say that. Do not, however, say that the only honorable thing that he can do is resign. I can make a case that he has performed according to the standards of his contract: Our football program was in terrible shape after the handling of the AD, Hayes and Small situations. We lost a tremendous number of players as a direct result of the Hayes and Small firings. So many in fact that we could not get enough bodies to hold a spring game and had to rely on an inordinate number of non-scholarship and first year players during his first year. Given that, it is entirely understandable that we went 0-11 in that year. In our second year, the only year so far that can be directly attributable to Fobb's efforts alone, by all measurements except the record the team has made a monumental improvement. Since we have made those improvements, Fobbs can legitimately state that he has performed as required by the contract. Has he performed well enough to satisfy us the fans. No. Has he performed well enough to satisfy himself. I don't know the man but I suspect not simply because he appears to be a competitive person. Having said that, I don't for one minute believe that he does not believe that he won't ever be able to turn around the program. If you have some evidence that he does in fact believe that he will never be able to turn around the program and is still taking the money, then you might question his intergrity. Until then, let's not continue to question his honor.
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Post by aggiechamp on Dec 2, 2007 17:59:05 GMT -5
The BDF has looked over his contract with a fine-toothed comb. There is no buyout clause and no benchmarks that he has to meet. He has 4 years guaranteed at $165,000 for being the head coach and OC. There is no language that specifically says what would happen if he ever stopped being the OC. What the hell ? Whoever drew up and signed off on this contract should be jailed ..Did someone at the state level have to review this before it went into action? This negro definitley got over on A&T. No benchmarks? Gauranteed for someone with no winning record or headcoaching experience? 4 years ? No language about the combination of HC & OC duties?? The end really must be near..... Trust me on this, there is nothing unusual about this contract except maybe the lack of a buyout. However, to get that language in the contract, you have to have the power/cheddar to require it. With the state of our program at the time we negotiated the contract and our desire for a coach with D1 experience, I doubt if any D1 coach would have left his presumably secure position to come to a school that would allow him to be bought out for a minimal amount.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 2, 2007 18:03:52 GMT -5
Aggiechamp, one thing you have to understand is that jaffe joffa just doesn't like Fobbs. I don't know if Jaffe got turned down for an assistant coaches job or something, but he has always had it in for the man. Over the past two years, Jaffe has accused the man of everything under the sun from kicking seniors off the team to alienating former NFL players to burning school books to being a Nazi sympathizer.
Fobb's current win and loss record just makes it more sweet.
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Post by jaffejoffa on Dec 2, 2007 18:07:22 GMT -5
For one, when Hayes and Small were here, we barely ever had enough players to fill a complete spring ball roster. Check the story. That excuse is not valid and does not fly. We have never had all of our guys in spring ball because grades, injuries, discipline issues etc. There was no Spring ball game in 2003, prior winning the MEAC. If it wasnt for the great idea that Fobbs had of that youth movement when he first arrived in Gboro, alot of players that played for Hayes and Small would still have been around. Fobbs cut, released and pulled scholarships of many of the guys who had seniority. Fobbs felt that he could outcoach all of his MEAC foes by winning with his freshman and juco talent, and was quickly brought to the light. There were alot of guys(letterman) with eligibility remaining who were walking around campus last year as regular students... How do we expect him to be able to turn around a struggling program when he has not had ANY headcoaching experience before and not dealt with turning a program around. There is no one on this staff who has the experience and teh know how to run a D1 program. All of the coaches are career position coaches and are not qualified. Anybody can be a decent coach once they get experience. So are we to wait 8 years while he's learning now and losing every damn game and f*(#* all these 4th quarter leads up ?? If he's fired now, I will bet you every dollar in my bank account that he will never get another d1,d1aa or even d2 coaching or coordinator opportunity. What man can state that he has legitimatley performed to the satisfaction of his contract when he's never ever one a game? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- media.www.dailytargum.com/media/storage/paper168/news/2005/03/09/Sports/Schiano.Fills.Coaching.Vacancies-889468.shtml- There are only a handful of coaches around the country that call their own plays. I remember Dee Todd saying that while doing her research she found that it was common to collapse teh positions. She should have been disposed just off of that right there.
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Post by aggiechamp on Dec 2, 2007 19:31:39 GMT -5
Jaffe Joffa You make my point for me. "Dee Todd did her research." Last time I looked Dee Todd works for us and she made the contract. She didn't have to agree to it. So your complaint is with Dee not Fobbs. I say again the contract is the contract. Like it or not, the contract is between A&T and Fobbs and not Fobbs and the fans. He is governed by the contract not by what you feel the contract should be. Say what you want about his coaching ability but please stop impugning his integrity. No I am not related to Fobbs or Dee or anyone else in the administration. I just believe fair is fair.
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Post by jaffejoffa on Dec 2, 2007 19:37:56 GMT -5
AggieChump, What point of yours am I making ? Dee did not do proper research and thus hired an incompetent coach. Unlike what Todd said, it is not commonplace for coaches to be HC & OC. If they are, theyve got a magnitude of experience and expertise, unlike Fobbs. So let me ask you, do you think he's doing a good job ? The way you answer that question will tell me everything I need to know about you. Fair aint fair when you lose 22 straight, and dont make any concrete, definitive changes, and are severely overpaid in the process.
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Post by aggiechamp on Dec 2, 2007 19:52:33 GMT -5
The point---Dee Todd, our athletic director, made a contract with Fobbs that allowed him to lose 22 games and not be fired. Dee Todd represented us, you and me, the A&T family in the negotiations. Any errors in the contract, ie., I researched the issue and it is quite common to collapse the position, were our errors made by our representative. Like it or not, that's the fact. So we shouldn't complain about the contract being unfair to us when we advocated the very position that we are now complaining about.
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