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Post by frmraggie on Dec 6, 2008 22:09:49 GMT -5
with all thats been said i feel i can finally deliver a few words into the conversation. there are a lot of factors that go into where this program is. everyone has pointed a finger but no one has accepted responsibility.
1. Coaching - there has been some bad coaching. i know we can all believe that. but it went even further than coaching, because there was even worse recruiting up until this past recruiting class.
2. Adminstration - i truly believe that wheels will do a great job with getting all this situated, but prior to him it was a mess. when you cant get transfers into school like everyone else your playing, whether they have baggage or not, is a problem. when you dont make exceptions for athletes to be admitted to school, like every other school in america does, or put the neccessary funds in the budget, last year sc state's operating budget was $3 million, then your gonna struggle.
3. when alumnist complain about the state of there program, but arent willing to put their money where their mouth is..... and a check for $100 doesnt count. if you want REAL input into the program and want change, sign a check that has more 4 digits before the decimal point.
i believe we all want to see a&t become competitive again, but its time to stop making excuses, pointing the finger and passing the buck and start looking for answers.
taking time to find the right is the right way to go, but needs to happen in a timely manner so that you dont lose out on too many recruits. but with that being said, you cant sign kids just to sign them. you need difference makers. i believe that wheels is going about it in the right way and held over coaches he may feel can help get some quality kids. we just gotta have faith that he will find the right guy and if not, sign a check for more than $5000 and get who ever the bring in out like they do at the bigger schools.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 7, 2008 19:13:02 GMT -5
1) Decks, Coach Small won the first year with Coach Hayes players, and after that...... 2)A&T is respected but without the rose colored glasses I still would ? a head coach leaving a winning program to come here at this point. Are you asumming those Head Coaches have applied or do you know for sure? I also believe there are a lot of applicants, but are they the ones on the board or coaches looking for a school that if you win five games you are hero!! wart, for head coach candidates, its not about what our recent record has been. its about whether we have the resources necessary for a coach to be successful. and the answer to that question is a resounding “YES”! that’s what attracts coaches to our head coach opening. we have a rich tradition in football with excellent “on campus” football facilities, a nice stadium and a wonderful fitness center. we have one of the largest fan followings in all of black college football and we pay a decent salary. and while we don’t have the largest budget in the world, its large enough that a good coach can be successful. those are the reasons that our head coach’s job is attractive. other coaches are smart enough to know that our recent demise in football resulted primarily from poor coaching rather than a lack of support. a lot of hbcu coaches would love to have the facilities and fan support that we can offer. you’re very misled if you think our head coach job is not very desirable for an awful lot of hbcu coaches... |
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wart
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Post by wart on Dec 8, 2008 9:05:36 GMT -5
At no time have I ever said A&T did not have everything you said, to me you are stating the obvious. My point is, at this point unless a coach is given a contract to be able to build a program, why would you come to G'boro. Yes A&T is an attractive school but if you want to WIN now the recruiting budget must grow and transfers be allowed to come in if their record is clean. At this point NO transfers are allowed and these players end up going elsewhere and help other schools. Also, there a lot of coaches, not only HBCU, that would love the facilities and school. Again, I reiterate, at least five years to rebuild this program.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 8, 2008 9:11:10 GMT -5
Didn't we just have a OL transfer from Marshall this past season?
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 8, 2008 11:02:01 GMT -5
At no time have I ever said A&T did not have everything you said, to me you are stating the obvious. My point is, at this point unless a coach is given a contract to be able to build a program, why would you come to G'boro. Yes A&T is an attractive school but if you want to WIN now the recruiting budget must grow and transfers be allowed to come in if their record is clean. At this point NO transfers are allowed and these players end up going elsewhere and help other schools. Also, there a lot of coaches, not only HBCU, that would love the facilities and school. Again, I reiterate, at least five years to rebuild this program. man, are you from another planet? you think folks around here are patient enough to wait 5 years to rebuild our program? do you want to see another mutiny? 'cause that's exactly what will happen if it takes the next coach 5 years to rebuild our program! how 'bout 2 years to rebuild our program? i'm not saying it should be written in the contract, but that's the kind of coach we need! and i have little doubt that there are coaches interested in our job who can do precisely that. AIN'T NOBODY TRYIN' TO WAIT 5 FREAKIN' YEARS! see, you have this thing all twisted. you have the perception that our last two coaches failed due to lack of support from the university. you have the false perception that our football demise resulted from systemic and institutional problems, and that's not the case at all (well, other than the decisions to hire small and fobbs). we simply hired two inadequate coaches, that has been the primary problem. when a potential head coach candidate considers applying for a head coach's job, the "primary" issues he considers are, #1 - can i win at this school, #2 - are the tools necessary to be successful in place at this school (admins, budget, and facilities), #3 - can i be successful recruiting athletes to this school, #4 - am i happy with the salary being offered, #5 - does the students, alumni, and the community support the team, #6 - will i be happy planting my roots and raising a family where the school is located, #7 in terms of profile, how does this job rank. those are the issues that potential head coach candidates consider first and foremost. and as it pertains to hbcu's, a&t scores very high on all of those issues. the very least item of priority on a coach's list is how many games the previous coach won. poor previous coaches do not degrade the prestige of the job, poor institutional support and poor alumni/community support does. and neither is a major problem for us. like i've said previously, a&t is one of the top 5 or 6 head coach jobs in all of hbcu football. and the fact that fobbs lasted as long as he did, reassures candidates that they'd also be given an ample opportunity to turn our program around. that's why it was a bad idea (encouraged by some) to "pre-maturely" fire fobbs. had we done so, perhaps potential head coach candidates would have negatively considered the impatience that would have been shown by our admin. but wheels played it perfectly. he didn't fire fobbs until it became absolutely necessary, he gave fobbs every opportunity to be successful. i'm sure potential candidates take comfort in knowing that we don't go off the edge simply because our coach has a bad season... |
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aggie62
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Post by aggie62 on Dec 8, 2008 11:12:00 GMT -5
Very well stated, oleschoolaggie!!!!
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 8, 2008 11:17:17 GMT -5
Yeah, those are some good points.
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Post by numberonebrave on Dec 8, 2008 17:20:02 GMT -5
Glenn #72 (6-5 300 g) came from Marshall.
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wart
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Post by wart on Dec 8, 2008 22:06:44 GMT -5
You are going to give a coach 2 yrs., how generous. We here on my planet believe that it takes 3 recruiting classes to turn a program around. I appreciate your lectures on the A&T virtues but you have an opnion and so do I. With all that 's been done in the past 5 yrs., I still suggest some patience and continued support for the program.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Dec 8, 2008 23:15:21 GMT -5
Let's not get to a far of field before we agree on what "turn around" means. To me a turn around doesn't mean championship. That's not going to happen in two years. To me turn around means competitive in year one, at least 4-6 wins in year two (depending on how we lose), a winning season in year three (hopefully). I don't think we can expect any coach to come in and win off the bat. There's a lot of cleaning to be done from years of neglect and mismanagement. We have a chance to rebuild from scratch, if we do it right this foundation will be solid for years and years to come.
This is not a stop gap play, the dude we select this time . . . we are all in. If we miss the mark, we will not reach the historic ineptitude of PVA&M but we are likely on the Morgan track of the recent past.
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wart
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Post by wart on Dec 9, 2008 8:33:03 GMT -5
To me turn around is very similar to you Aggie77, except I would add recruiting athletes that can compete on the highest level of the MEAC and not those that just fill a uniform. I agree we're all in with diverse reasons but A&T is the reason we're on this discussion.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 9, 2008 10:20:48 GMT -5
Let's not get to a far of field before we agree on what "turn around" means. To me a turn around doesn't mean championship. That's not going to happen in two years. To me turn around means competitive in year one, at least 4-6 wins in year two (depending on how we lose), a winning season in year three (hopefully). I don't think we can expect any coach to come in and win off the bat. There's a lot of cleaning to be done from years of neglect and mismanagement. We have a chance to rebuild from scratch, if we do it right this foundation will be solid for years and years to come. This is not a stop gap play, the dude we select this time . . . we are all in. If we miss the mark, we will not reach the historic ineptitude of PVA&M but we are likely on the Morgan track of the recent past. aggie77, that's exactly what i mean by turning our program around. even if we only win 4 games next year it will be more than we've won for the last 5 seasons. and turning our program around shouldn't take a monumental task! assuming that the mass majority of our players return next year, we already have enough talent to be competitive in the meac. not saying we'll be contenders, but with the talent we have i can see us winning 4 to 6 games next year "if we have a good coach". and if the inference here is that we only won 3 games this season because we didn't have enough talent, then i disagree with that. i feel we have better than 3-9 talent currently on our football team. we had enough talent on our team to win 6 games this year. we should have beat nccu, coastal carolina, and norfolk. so our pot is not empty. and to anyone who'd suggest a program can't be turned around immediately, i'd refer them to observe rod broadway and joe taylor. they both turned their respective programs "completely" around the first year of their tenure at grambling and famu. i'm not suggesting that our next coach will be just as successful in his first year, but its not out of the realm of possibility. i simply don't buy the notion that we have to go through a long drawn out rebuilding process, "again". we've been rebuilding for the last 3 years, in no way should we have to rebuild for an additional 3 or 4. as long as we're able to keep our current players at a&t, a good coach could come in and win 4-6 games next year. we have a young team, the foundation is already in place. we don't need to build an entirely new one, we just need to augment and improve our existing foundation. our losing program has more to do with poor coaching than poor talent. but the key is keeping the talent we already have. in large measure, that's wheels' responsibility. he must reassure the players that we're going to hire a very good coach and get our train back on the right track... |
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wart
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Post by wart on Dec 10, 2008 8:55:33 GMT -5
Ole, Maybe on my planet we look at things differently but if you believe we have the talent to be successful on the field now...... ? Which games did you watch? I don't want to argue but for us to compete regularly we need speed. There is only so much Cedric can do. Bobby Bowden always said," you either got speed or you're chasing it" and i saw a lot of chasing during the last 3 yrs of 0-11, 0-11,and 3-9.
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 10, 2008 9:19:16 GMT -5
Oftentimes you can scheme around it, but is shawl does make things easier if you have it.
When we played Wofford in the playoffs we were faster than them at every position. Didn’t matter. They had better technique. We got creamed. Wofford even discombobulated the defending national champion the following week by almost the same score they beat us by. The week after that they played Delaware and Delaware was faster and was as technically sound. They got floored.
Speed kills. Technique rebirths.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Dec 10, 2008 9:36:45 GMT -5
Ole, Maybe on my planet we look at things differently but if you believe we have the talent to be successful on the field now...... ? Which games did you watch? I don't want to argue but for us to compete regularly we need speed. There is only so much Cedric can do. Bobby Bowden always said," you either got speed or you're chasing it" and i saw a lot of chasing during the last 3 yrs of 0-11, 0-11,and 3-9. We played a lot teams that have talent or speed equal to or lesser than ours over the last three years. What speed or talent did Howard, Coastal, WSSU, NCCU, Morgan, NSU, PVA&M, (or BCU for that matter), have the past three years that was superior to ours. In fact we have great speed at the corners, but you can't coach speed, but you can coach technique. The problem is not the talent to be competitive, we have enough talent to be competitive, but winning championships is another issue. Do you really think FAMU went from beating us 24-21 in Tally, to beating us 45-7 in Greensboro a year later, because of talent and speed? |
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