I got a serious question

[Freeze]

Aggie nation, I got a question I would like to pose to fans and followers of black college football. It seems that every time there is an opening at a HBCU for head coach, the only names that ever surface amongst the fan base and amongst supporters of black college football are coaches that are associated with black college football. Why is that?

You go over to Onnidan, or MEAC Fans and all the posters through out suggestions for our new coach and the only names that ever come up are former black college coaches, current black college coaches, or postion coaches at Div. I (FBS) schools. I just wonder why our range of thought is so limited when it comes to this subject? Is it because we believe that someone from "outside" the culture of black colleges will not understand or appreciate how black colleges "function"? Or is it that we feel a need to create a sense of dedication to black coaches who are often overlooked for coaching positions at other institutions?

I will agree that the latter issue is one of great importance and equity in hiring is something that needs to be addressed in various professions. But I can't help but wonder if our limited vision and commitment to who we believe are the only ones qualified to lead our football programs is somehow crippling our ability to bring in the right man for the job. Can we honestly believe that such a limited pool of candidates is the only answer to filling a position that can assist with the marketing of our alma mater, the branding of the Aggie name, the recruitment of students who want to be a part of a winner, and elevating the overall image of our beloved institution? I just wonder sometimes...

[Bornthrilla]

Great question. I wish I had the answer ....

[DOOMS]

I got a serious answer. The naming of candidates falls in line with the mindset of the alumni. We don’t want to be competitive outside of hccu circles. Anybody that says we do is just giving lip service. Look at what our administrations provide to support our teams against what the average pwc’s administration provides.

Have some cool-Aid. I took a sip. It's quite tasty once you realize it's cool-Aid and realize ain't nobody fin to provide you with fine wine around here.

[Freeze]

Oct 27, 2008 9:54:44 GMT -5 Bornthrilla said:

Great question. I wish I had the answer ....

Thrilla, you are one of the four or five smartest people on this earth...I need you to get an answer to this critical question for me....

[Aggie77]

Dooms provided the answer, it our mindset. Don’t forget that arguably at least half of the people at the game come to see the bands or to walk around. It’s a social event and every once in a while a touchdown or something football related happens.

Does the announcer at PWC schools to tell the fans when their team makes a 1st down, or when it’s 3rd down for the opponent, or to cheer for the defense when their come off the field on a three out or a big 3rd down stop, or to tell the band not play after the teams break the huddle in the 8th game of the season. It’s the same reason we don’t give more, our mindset doesn’t allow it. We are comfortable were we are. Until leadership cast a new vision, the vast majority will accept whatever the current vision is. Because “they were hired to the job, do you think you can do a better job”, how many times have we heard something like that?

[Freeze]

Oct 27, 2008 10:33:05 GMT -5 Aggie77 said:

Dooms provided the answer, it our mindset. Don’t forget that arguably at least half of the people at the game come to see the bands or to walk around. It’s a social event and every once in a while a touchdown or something football related happens.

Does the announcer at PWC schools to tell the fans when their team makes a 1st down, or when it’s 3rd down for the opponent, or to cheer for the defense when their come off the field on a three out or a big 3rd down stop, or to tell the band not play after the teams break the huddle in the 8th game of the season. It’s the same reason we don’t give more, our mindset doesn’t allow it. We are comfortable were we are. Until leadership cast a new vision, the vast majority will accept whatever the current vision is. Because “they were hired to the job, do you think you can do a better job”, how many times have we heard something like that?

Interesting analysis...I would however be extremely intrested to hear from posters who believe that recruiting from the ranks of black college athletics is the sound and most logical option based upon a professional platform and not the cultural platform that Aggie77 and Dooms have laid out.

I need to know why most BCF supporters think that this is professionally sound and is our best (and most often) our FIRST mode of thought and action. I know you are out there...I would like to hear from that side of the coin as well.

[DOOMS]

You know, when we fired Scandrett, Hayes, Davis, and Fobbs (probably Todd too, but I don’t remember) the quote was “we were going in a new direction.” Technically speaking if you are spinning in circles then you are constantly going in a new direction.

But back to the main point, while pretty much every white guy that an hbcu has hired to be head football coach has been successful, how many of them actually won a playoff game? Zero. How many even made the playoffs? As far as I can remember only Dave Dolch at Bowie State. So even if we eschew race and hire the best candidate (not saying that the best candidate is black, white, Mexican, caniblasian, whatever) history says we still will only hit a certain level of success. Granted, history also says a white guy will be able to rebuild the program, but so could a black guy. Given the fact that we still have a number of alums that have been spit on by a white person (present company included) and still harbor feelings of resentment against the whole race because of it (present company excluded), you can hang up the idea of getting the best candidate, period.

Truthfully, I think we are scared to do what it would take to be nationally competitive. When Hayes went 11-2, his budget should have gone through the roof. It wasn't increased one dime. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that no matter how much you increased it you still wouldn't be close to what YSU was spending. That was the team that didn't punt against our best team in school history and took a knee at the one yard line at the end of a 41-3 shellacking they gave us.

In truth, we’re doing what every conference does. The SEC does so much inbreeding I’m surprised the teams aren’t retarded. Same with the Southern Conference. The administrators want somebody who can beat hbcus because that’s who we play. The fact is that the only people who believe winning at an hbcu is as easy as pie are hbcu fans that bother to watch how well non-hbcus play and ignore the advantages that these teams have.

[Freeze]

Oct 27, 2008 11:08:46 GMT -5 DOOMS said:

You know, when we fired Scandrett, Hayes, Davis, and Fobbs (probably Todd too, but I don’t remember) the quote was “we were going in a new direction.” Technically speaking if you are spinning in circles then you are constantly going in a new direction.

But back to the main point, while pretty much every white guy that an hbcu has hired to be head football coach has been successful, how many of them actually won a playoff game? Zero. How many even made the playoffs? As far as I can remember only Dave Dolch at Bowie State. So even if we eschew race and hire the best candidate (not saying that the best candidate is black, white, Mexican, caniblasian, whatever) history says we still will only hit a certain level of success. Granted, history also says a white guy will be able to rebuild the program, but so could a black guy. Given the fact that we still have a number of alums that have been spit on by a white person (present company included) and still harbor feelings of resentment against the whole race because of it (present company excluded), you can hang up the idea of getting the best candidate, period.

Truthfully, I think we are scared to do what it would take to be nationally competitive. When Hayes went 11-2, his budget should have gone through the roof. It wasn't increased one dime. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that no matter how much you increased it you still wouldn't be close to what YSU was spending. That was the team that didn't punt against our best team in school history and took a knee at the one yard line at the end of a 41-3 shellacking they gave us.

In truth, we’re doing what every conference does. The SEC does so much inbreeding I’m surprised the teams aren’t retarded. Same with the Southern Conference. The administrators want somebody who can beat hbcus because that’s who we play. The fact is that the only people who believe winning at an hbcu is as easy as pie are hbcu fans that bother to watch how well non-hbcus play and ignore the advantages that these teams have.

I'm just interested to know why is it almost a knee-jerk reaction by black college alumns to throw out names IMMEDIATELY like: Kenny Phillips, Mike White, Daryl Asberry, Billy Joe, the Cole Brothers, Broadway....even Bill Hayes. I MEAN DAMN...is this all we know??

Dooms I didn't even reach the point in my line of questioning on who can be successful at schools like HBCU's...I just want to know why is that these same list of coaches are the only ones we believe are IMMEDIATELY qualified to lead our teams. I mean, its almost like we unconciously spit out names...

You and I are in agreement that at the end of the day, given our current level of financial support of our athletic programs and given our record in the playofffs...it probably doesn't matter anyway...I'm just trying to get into the minds of BCF supporters to better understand the seemingly limited range and scope of our thinking.

[oleschoolaggie]

Oct 27, 2008 9:34:34 GMT -5 Freeze said:

Is it because we believe that someone from "outside" the culture of black colleges will not understand or appreciate how black colleges "function"? Or is it that we feel a need to create a sense of dedication to black coaches who are often overlooked for coaching positions at other institutions?

freeze my man, you've answered your own question. its a combination of things but you hit the main two.

let's face it, how many white folks do you know who are comfortable taking orders "exclusively" from a predominately black hierarchy? not that many. and how many do you know that are dedicated to the same mission as hbcu's? again, not that many.

i don't think its a racial bias thing at all, otherwise we wouldn't already have two white head coaches at a&t. typically, most hbcu's simply do not and cannot provide the support and/or resources that "most" white candidates are accustom to.

i think dooms previously provided a perfect example of that and i agree with him. 3 time fcs champion app state coach, jerry moore, would not likely succeed at a&t for the very reasons you suggested above. he'd have to work far harder to be successful at a&t than he would at app state, and he still probably wouldn't win a national championship.

i think its okay to think out of the box but hbcu's have been in the business of playing football for many decades. in our history, hbcu's have had presidents and admins who are much smarter than you and i. for almost a hundred years, there's been very few white head football coaches at hbcu's and i personally think the reasons are justified. i'm not opposed to hiring white head coaches, but there's no other college institutions in america that are simular to hbcu's in terms of history, tradition, and mission.

so, in my opinion, a white head coach must be "uniquely" qualified to be successful at an hbcu and its just not that many of them out there...

[Bornthrilla]

hbcu's have had presidents and admins who are much smarter than you and i.

Speak for yourself. I am one of the four or ... well hell, you know the rest.

[morrisonmafia73]

Money , money, money.

[thefriscotxaggie]

I am glad this question was finally put out there for the messsage board to chew on. With out question its the mind set. For the most part HBCU's regurgitate the same Coaches and if you can win the meac, or swac you are King. There is not a determination from the administration or the Coach to go furthur.

[]Here is the second piece to your question. Why are there a fair number of guys from MEAC & SWAC schools in the NFL; however its a rare occasion when you see a guy in the league from Wofford, William & Mary, Sam Houston State, etc. ? ( But we lose on a consistant basis to these teams). The only HBCU coaching ledgend that broke the mold on this was Billy Joe and to a small extent Bill Hayes.

[DECKS]

To much inbreeding has basically transformed us (HBCU's) into a collection of retards.

[Aggie77]

Nov 14, 2008 0:42:27 GMT -5 DECKS said:

To much inbreeding has basically transformed us (HBCU's) into a collection of retards.

Candidate for Best Post of the week!!