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Post by dscot399 on Dec 15, 2008 20:58:57 GMT -5
I have been on record as saying HBCU coaches are overpaid. But this post is not about that, I felt instead of sitting here throwing stones I should offer a suggestion on what I think is the best course of action. As much as fans and alumni we like to think that athletics is immune to what is going on around the university, it is simply not true. The state of North Carolina has mandated that the university system give back some of its budget due to the economic climate. If they have not done it already come Jan A&T will be sending back 3-5% and there is the possibility that they will have to send back more in May. With that said it is not reasonable for Brown to sit here and pursue a hired gun "Frazier or Broadway". There is no way of knowing how the economy is going to impact the budget for next year and beyond. I think of the candidates that Brown is looking at you must remove any HBCU division 1-AA coach from consideration because of cost. I have not heard anywhere of A&T considering a D-II coach so, I feel that the best value for NC A&T would be to hire Ragsland as Head Coach at double his position coach salary (new salary $100,000). With limited experience as a head coach I would like to see a veteran staff and a sprinkle of Aggie Dust. Below is the proposed staff, there is a mixture of youth and experience and have ties all over the state of North Carolina. Coach Ragsdale Passing Game Coordinator & QB Coach - Connell Maynor Running Back & Assistant Head Coach - Daryl McNeil Wide Receiver - Kwame Dixon O-Line & TE - Richard McGregor Defensive Coordinator & Linebackers - Mike Ketchum D-Line & Special Team - Sherman Simmons D-Backs & Recruiting Coordinator- Steven Davis With an eye toward the future Ragsdale should bring in a couple of young guys to mentor on his staff. Steven Davis and Connell Maynor are former Aggies football players who are ideal to be added to the staff. While Steven Davis might feel that he is ready to be a coach at the D-I level the Aggies he should start out as a position coach. If for nothing else but get in the grind of recruiting. Even as a position coach he would get a modest raise. With the AFL decision not to have a season this year, a promotion to Aggies could be just what Maynor need. There is no way that FSU can pay what A&T can for assistants.
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Post by AggieGroove on Dec 15, 2008 21:32:17 GMT -5
Your ideas are great but me vetting your selections:
1. 5+ yrs of futility dictates someone proven = no Ragsdale! 2. No Daryl McNeil = Classic HBCU recycle! 3. Kwame Brown = need more information to judge! 4. OL & tight End Coach = McGeorge = Yes! 5. None of defensive coaches am I familiar with the exception of Davis = No (exception Davis). Davis is a diamond in the rough!
I agree with retaining Ragsdale on the next staff...but our HC requires a proven winner and this 5 yr stuff is getting old without a serious threat for the MEAC champ is baloney....let's get the best coaching staff we can plus we now have Black PreZ.....
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Post by dscot399 on Dec 15, 2008 22:31:57 GMT -5
LOL.
No way you get a coach with 5 year experience without paying into the $140-$175K range (with the exception of D-II coach).
If Battle signs off on a coach at that level Bowles need to start looking for a replacement! Battle, Brown and the BOT all would need to be replaced.
This is a serious economic crisis, and although Brown don't have to state $$$$ is the driving force in the decision it should be at the top of the list.
Do you want to give a shot at explaining why the honors program has to give back 10% of its budget, and multiple scholarships while athletics increase spending on a head coach?
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Post by Brandmasta on Dec 16, 2008 8:13:45 GMT -5
A successful football program pays for itself.
Do you remember when a Howard game at home was a guaranteed sellout? The attendance this year was listed as 4,358.
17,000 fans stayed at home that weekend that might have been buying game tickets, hotdogs and drinks if we had a better football team. How much revenue would that ONE GAME have brought in? What about revenue from increased attendance for the whole season? Certainly more than the extra 40-75K in head coach salary that you want us to save.
Let's invest in a good coach, get Aggie Stadium rockin again, and increase the revenue at least to where it was in years past.
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Post by aggiejazz on Dec 16, 2008 9:19:25 GMT -5
The die has been cast as far as the qualification requirement. It is posted in the job vacancy announcement that the applicant must have a minimum of: 10 years of college coaching experience and 4 years of head coaching experience or coordinator experience or a combination of the two that equals to 4 years of experience.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Dec 16, 2008 9:26:13 GMT -5
Brandmasta, you are correct. We averaged 10K this year instead of historically 15K per home game. Over seven games that's 35K fans lost this season.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 16, 2008 10:24:12 GMT -5
LOL. No way you get a coach with 5 year experience without paying into the $140-$175K range (with the exception of D-II coach). If Battle signs off on a coach at that level Bowles need to start looking for a replacement! Battle, Brown and the BOT all would need to be replaced. This is a serious economic crisis, and although Brown don't have to state $$$$ is the driving force in the decision it should be at the top of the list. Do you want to give a shot at explaining why the honors program has to give back 10% of its budget, and multiple scholarships while athletics increase spending on a head coach? not only that, like it or not, athletics is far more visible to the general public than any other university program. how many other programs at a&t are shown live on national tv 5 or 6 times a year? without question academics is our #1 priority, but athletics has a major role as well. i'm sure alumni and corporate donations go up when our teams perform well. so fielding successful teams impact not only revenue at the gate but also donations and corporate sponsorships. as far as explaining athletics potentially spending $140k-$170k for our next head coach, it can easily be done when the relationship of significantly loss revenue from a failing football program is put on the table too. significant loss of gate, alumni donations, and corporate sponsorships could easily justify hiring a first rate head coach....
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Post by dscot399 on Dec 16, 2008 11:56:15 GMT -5
Athletics bring prestige and a semblance of income, but in no way shape or means is Football self-supported. The actual cost of football easily top $1.5 million dollars to operate.
In order for football to be self-supported, it would have to pay for the 85 scholarships ($1 million, that is valuing each full year scholarship at less $12,000), the salaries of the coaching ($250K-$350K) and support staff (operations, marketing/sales, reception, AD, etc.) That is not including traveling expense, per Diem, facility fees or the cost of the band.
In order for football to be self-sufficient it must generate income that would cover expenses yearly with minimum support from the student athletic fee. Last time I checked NC A&T had a policy of students having free admission. The 10,000 to 15,000 mention don't represent the accurate gate income. I'm in a giving mood so, is it safe to assume that 25% of a crowd at an A&T home game is students (who are getting in free). The more successful the program is the more that the Game Becomes the Scene so naturally their attendance level rise as well.
Brown has already said that Ragsdale was a candidate for the job. My suggestion of hiring him is based on the combination of experience and the fact he would be cheap. By the way just because the HR department has a candidate description does not mean the person hired will fill that description. It happens all of the time, including in positions for the state of North Carolina. Actually the North Carolina Republican Party put together a website of "corrupt" Democrat and listed some of the unqualified people who were hired as personal favors. DOT has plenty of them, just drive around Charlotte.
The Chancellor at APP State among many others have stated that "athletics is the front porch of a university". I don't disagree with that sentiment; the economy is in a dire state. The state is faced with a shortfall of income with rising expenses, and has already requested money back from the university. Is the prudent thing to do is go out and spend $175K on a football coach. Who is to say that next year the state don't request another 10% in budget reduction. If A&T lock themselves in such a massive contract when the university turn to the athletic department for budget cuts where is it going to come from?
As a graduate student, one of the pleasures that I get is doing research papers (being that my studies are in Sports Administration I have came across research that suggest athletics don't bring in the quantity of donors & sponsorship that is commonly assume). That is especially true at the bigger schools.
Aggies even in professional sports they are acknowledging that the economy is putting a strain on sports. The NBA, NFL, and MLB all have laid off staff employees. The NFL has went out and got a loan for $2 billion dollars to provide stability and liquidity to its teams.
A&T is facing uncertain times, you can not spend at the same level when you was faced with prosperity. As the economy get worse, the alumni donations and sponsorship deals will dry up. There is no end in site to the downturn in the economy, so why tie yourself to another massive contract. Can you actually look in the mirror and say, that the economy has impacted those organizations but A&T should not even consider changing the way it does business. Universities are considering "releasing" faculty members, yet you guys want the athletic department to spend top dollar on a vacancy that is not tied to the Mission of the University.
Athletics does have a purpose at a university it is a form of education for the students, it is a marketing tool for the university, and it a method that alumni & fans show support. As an alumnus if your only support for the university concerns athletics though, are you truly supporting the university?
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@ProfBellamy
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Post by @ProfBellamy on Dec 16, 2008 12:03:49 GMT -5
LOL. No way you get a coach with 5 year experience without paying into the $140-$175K range (with the exception of D-II coach). If Battle signs off on a coach at that level Bowles need to start looking for a replacement! Battle, Brown and the BOT all would need to be replaced. This is a serious economic crisis, and although Brown don't have to state $$$$ is the driving force in the decision it should be at the top of the list. Do you want to give a shot at explaining why the honors program has to give back 10% of its budget, and multiple scholarships while athletics increase spending on a head coach? not only that, like it or not, athletics is far more visible to the general public than any other university program. how many other programs at a&t are shown live on national tv 5 or 6 times a year? without question academics is our #1 priority, but athletics has a major role as well. i'm sure alumni and corporate donations go up when our teams perform well. so fielding successful teams impact not only revenue at the gate but also donations and corporate sponsorships. as far as explaining athletics potentially spending $140k-$170k for our next head coach, it can easily be done when the relationship of significantly loss revenue from a failing football program is put on the table too. significant loss of gate, alumni donations, and corporate sponsorships could easily justify hiring a first rate head coach.... Well lets break down something simple here the budget process. The gripe about sending back 3-5% of the overall State Appropriation has little to do with Athletics. I hate that Honors has to send back money, its a real important program to me. However, lean budget years requires alot of changes and I think that students don't recognize how things are funded. Honors is funded with a combination of State Approrpiated funds and funds from Tuition. Honors like any other department will directly feel the crunch of a lean budget year. Additionally they have more restrictions on how their funds can be used and would have to make serious decisions at this time. Areas that are funded by Student Fees ( Health Services, Educational & Technology, Student Activities and Athletics) are funded solely by the students. They aren't subjected directly to a budget return, except when it deals with staffing in many cases. However, athletics has more restrictions placed on it by the state including the non-use of state funds. We have moved the majority (soon to be all) staff off of state funds to satisfy requirements from an audit years ago. So when we're talking about budget cuts and returning state funds we have to realize its not athletics. However, in good faith these areas should trim their budgets to be inline with the rest of the campus.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 16, 2008 12:54:45 GMT -5
Athletics bring prestige and a semblance of income, but in no way shape or means is Football self-supported. The actual cost of football easily top $1.5 million dollars to operate. In order for football to be self-supported, it would have to pay for the 85 scholarships ($1 million, that is valuing each full year scholarship at less $12,000), the salaries of the coaching ($250K-$350K) and support staff (operations, marketing/sales, reception, AD, etc.) That is not including traveling expense, per Diem, facility fees or the cost of the band. In order for football to be self-sufficient it must generate income that would cover expenses yearly with minimum support from the student athletic fee. Last time I checked NC A&T had a policy of students having free admission. The 10,000 to 15,000 mention don't represent the accurate gate income. I'm in a giving mood so, is it safe to assume that 25% of a crowd at an A&T home game is students (who are getting in free). The more successful the program is the more that the Game Becomes the Scene so naturally their attendance level rise as well. Brown has already said that Ragsdale was a candidate for the job. My suggestion of hiring him is based on the combination of experience and the fact he would be cheap. By the way just because the HR department has a candidate description does not mean the person hired will fill that description. It happens all of the time, including in positions for the state of North Carolina. Actually the North Carolina Republican Party put together a website of "corrupt" Democrat and listed some of the unqualified people who were hired as personal favors. DOT has plenty of them, just drive around Charlotte. The Chancellor at APP State among many others have stated that "athletics is the front porch of a university". I don't disagree with that sentiment; the economy is in a dire state. The state is faced with a shortfall of income with rising expenses, and has already requested money back from the university. Is the prudent thing to do is go out and spend $175K on a football coach. Who is to say that next year the state don't request another 10% in budget reduction. If A&T lock themselves in such a massive contract when the university turn to the athletic department for budget cuts where is it going to come from? As a graduate student, one of the pleasures that I get is doing research papers (being that my studies are in Sports Administration I have came across research that suggest athletics don't bring in the quantity of donors & sponsorship that is commonly assume). That is especially true at the bigger schools. Aggies even in professional sports they are acknowledging that the economy is putting a strain on sports. The NBA, NFL, and MLB all have laid off staff employees. The NFL has went out and got a loan for $2 billion dollars to provide stability and liquidity to its teams. A&T is facing uncertain times, you can not spend at the same level when you was faced with prosperity. As the economy get worse, the alumni donations and sponsorship deals will dry up. There is no end in site to the downturn in the economy, so why tie yourself to another massive contract. Can you actually look in the mirror and say, that the economy has impacted those organizations but A&T should not even consider changing the way it does business. Universities are considering "releasing" faculty members, yet you guys want the athletic department to spend top dollar on a vacancy that is not tied to the Mission of the University. Athletics does have a purpose at a university it is a form of education for the students, it is a marketing tool for the university, and it a method that alumni & fans show support. As an alumnus if your only support for the university concerns athletics though, are you truly supporting the university? what you're saying about student fees and attendance may be true, but bare in mind that our "total" enrollment doesn't exceed 11,000 students while our average attendance use to be 15k plus. i doubt seriously that over 75% of our current students regularly attend all home football games. so the short fall of attendance is significantly impacted by "paying" customers. in fact, every seat in the "reserved" section represents paying customers and a lot of them are season ticket holders. i owned 2 season tickets this year and only attended 2 games at aggie stadium. and even if "current" students don't pay for admission, they still purchase refreshments and t-shirts amongst other things. secondly, if the football program continues to fail, where will the funds come from to support expenses that are normally paid for with gate revenue, alumni donations, and corporate sponsorship? who's gonna pay for the financial shortfall experienced by a declining football program? i wonder what other budget it will come out of? to field a winning football program takes a combination of multiple factors, but the single most important facet of those factors is the head coach. hiring on the cheap will make matters worse instead of better. the hiring criteria shouldn't be based on a cheap salary, it should be based on hiring the best candidate possible. our football program is on the brink of total collapse unless we get things turned around quickly. we've already sustained about as much failure as we can tolerate before we totally collapse as a football program. besides, the coach's salary doesn't encompass the entire athletics budget. cuts could be made in other areas of the athletics budget if necessary. in addition, i'd suggest to you that if our new coach's salary falls in the range of $140k-$170k, it "will not" represent an "increase" in the coach's salary. it will represent less than or equal to the salary that fobbs would have been paid had he not been fired. so we're not "increasing" the coach's salary, we're sustaining it. clearly it is in the best interests of the entire university that our football program is a successful one. find other ways to trim the athletics budget if we must, but don't take it away from the single most important aspect of our football program...
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 16, 2008 13:03:25 GMT -5
I think we could get an inexpensive coach and do well. We're ignoring the fact that almost no one on this message board would have picked George Small or Lee Fobbs over the other candidates that were available at the time of their hirings. Dee Todd, Jim Renick, and even Charlie Davis didn't have a clue how to pick a decent coach. While Small came in with a very good plan (in my opinion) his coaching record and his demeanor (and his inability to compensate for the school's shortcomings) didn't make him the smart pick. No need to go into any detail about Fobbs.
Now we have football men running not only the athletic department, but the university as a whole. These guys actually know what to look for, and hopefully they know they don't have to spend six figures to get it.
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B&GMM 80
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Post by B&GMM 80 on Dec 16, 2008 13:46:29 GMT -5
I would like to know who is interested in becoming NCA&TSU next Football Coach, just a list of Names would be Great!
mostly what I read thus far is Speculation!
This process is "dragging"
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B&GMM 80
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Post by B&GMM 80 on Dec 17, 2008 18:09:14 GMT -5
Posted December 17, 2008 04:59 PM www.macon.com/149/story/559666.html Posted on Wed, Dec. 17, 2008 UPDATE: FVSU picks Pittman as new football coach Michael A. Lough
Fort Valley State hopes the next time its new head football coach is on the same site, he is under sunny skies and next to a new multimillion dollar stadium.
So does Donald Pittman.
Pittman was introduced Wednesday afternoon as FVSU's newest coach at a news conference in the aging parking lot next to the former home and future home of Wildcat Stadium.
Pittman actually arrived in Fort Valley about 8 a.m. for what he thought was simply another interview, this time just with President Larry Rivers.
It was simply the final conversation Rivers needed to make the decision. The offer was made and accepted not long before the news conference.
“I haven’t slept the last three or four days,” said Pittman, who will meet with current FVSU assistants today. “We did the interview and he said, ‘I’m going to offer you the job.’ "
Rivers said he was 90 percent sure Pittman was the man, but he wanted to talk more about academics and Pittman’s philosophy.
He liked what he heard, the offer was made and accepted, and the 57-year-old was introduced to about 100 fans, staff, faculty and members of the current coaching staff as construction on the new stadium 100 yards away took a break.
Pittman got brownie points by fairly quickly talking about beating rivals Tuskegee and Albany State.
“I know the expectations of the program,” he said. “I know my best coaching days are ahead of me.”
Pittman spent seven season as offensive coordinator at Albany State, one of FVSU's two biggest rivals in the Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference, and helped the Rams to at least a share of four conference titles.
The 1974 graduate of Adams State (Colo.) University joined the ASU staff in 2002 after working at Midwestern State (Texas) and Texas A&M-Kingsville.
He succeeds Deondri Clark, who resigned on Nov. 10, two days after the Wildcats completed a 6-5 season with a 15-6 win over Stillman. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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