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Post by antfan2003 on Dec 4, 2005 0:05:21 GMT -5
Well currently as it stands.. our situation doesnt need any help in the area of head coaching... This is a great hire for the University. Coach Fobbs will bring a different mentality to Strickland fieldhouse and the program as a whole. Hes been where we are trying to go and weve gotta embrace him and his new staff.. And as with any good organization its not our place to set the goals for the program and determine whats attainable or not.... its the responsibility of the leadership to create the vision and make it plain to the people as to how we get there.. not the other way around...
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 4, 2005 0:20:15 GMT -5
Where are we trying to go?... I asked the a.d. and I never really got a clear answer on that.... I'm beginning to think we're looking at I-A again....
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Post by antfan2003 on Dec 4, 2005 0:48:23 GMT -5
We are trying to first get back to where we were. Nobody that I know of has said ANYTHING about moving to I-A. Dee Todd stated that she would like to be pplaying I-A competition in 2-3 years. Over that period of time we need to have put ourselves in a position through recruiting to be able to go into a game against I-A competition and be competitive... thats what ive gathered to be the vision . If we can do that then we can move ourselves toward establishing ourselves as a I-AA power...and i dont think ANYBODY can realistically consider moving from where they are until they can dominate where they are... Coach Fobbs wont recruit like its a part time job.. He understands that is a 365 day process and will go about it that way..So im callin all the real Aggies can get behind him and throw that money at the Aggie Club(NOWHERE ELSE) so if he needs to go to Texas and get the guys that can get us to where we need to be.. then the money is there.. if he needs to go to Florida, Alabama,Tennessee, or anywhere else out of state.... then he can do it becuase money wont be the issue.. Lets help the Aggie Club double the $140,000 they gave to the athletic dept this year... so that money doesnt continue to be an issue.. Thats how we can support the program...Always remember its about the program... If we put the program in a fiscally stable position then regardless of what happens or who comes and goes.. the program will continue to flourish...
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Dec 4, 2005 1:18:46 GMT -5
I told you all! Renick still wants to make that move, when it's feasable.
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Post by AggieMike on Dec 4, 2005 2:09:12 GMT -5
i agree bruh.. yall old heads need to keep writing them checks and give the man a chance A&T and 1-A shouldnt even be on our minds right now, its MORE than 2-3 years off...more like 10
AGGIE BASEBALL DESERVES THAT MONEY!!! (lol)
Florida, Alabama, Tennessee...are u singin daisy dukes??? LOL just kiddin
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Dec 4, 2005 3:00:37 GMT -5
I said this before in the private forum and I'm going to say it out here. I love HBCU's. I'm a product of one that I feel is one of the best in the country...A&T. I've been around these institutions all my life. Even my doctoral research concerns the history and culture of these very institutions.
One of the more pressing problems that have plaqued Black colleges over the years has been the vainglorious machismo that often accompany decision making on these campuses. Administrators and faculty members becoming drunk with power and position to the point where they feel their decisions are beyond reproach and critique.
Incompetency and ineptitude can abound in this environment and can often do so unquestioned and unchecked because people have become comfortable with the culture. Unfortunately it appears that this culture has invaded something that should be secondary to the mission of any academic institution; athletics. So now posters on this site have expressed their disdain and displeasure with people who have the audacity to express their disagreement with the most recent decision made by our athletic department? How dare we have a critique about a decision that our administrators made?!? If I'm not mistaken, the purpose of this website was to facilitate discussion and debate about Aggie football, was it not? If you hate the idea of someone debating athletics, then you probably shouldnt check out this site or any atheltic message board for that matter.
In regards to the recent decision of my alma mater, I vehemently disagree with the criteria (someone with a I-A background) Dee Todd used to find a replacement for Coach Small, and I have that right to. I have the right to come to this website and discuss exactly why I feel this move was a bad decision. In the land of I-A (where Todd and Fobbs come from) its common place for fans of the program to be highly critical of decisions that are made by coaches and administrators, (especially on message boards) and I'm sure that Todd and Fobbs are all too familiar with it. I am also sure that they could care less because they are used to it and thats a good thing. They should be more focused on getting the team and this program back on track.
The bottom line is this, it's just sports people. This website was designed for fans of the game to come and discuss the game and team. What goes on here is the same thing that happens when you may get upset with your favorite NFL or NBA team when they make decisions you find unfavorable whether on or off the field and express that disappointment verbally or in a fan forum. If you cant handle that criticism then dont come in here. To try and lable someone as disloyal to their alma mater because they disagree with the decisions made by the athletic director is very narrow in thinking, much like Dee Todd limiting her search to someone who had I-A coaching experience. The result? A 29 year veteran of coaching positions at the D-I level. No coordinating experience. No head coaching experience. No playoff experience. Just coaching positions...from team to team. I disagree with that and thank God someone created a forum where I could share my ideas. If you disagree with me, fine. You have that right too. But dont question my devotion to my alma mater because I choose to not support this decision. I agree with Dooms. After witnessing this last decision I dont think my hopes and desires for this program are obtainable. We may finish in top three of the MEAC. We may occasionally win the MEAC. But I truly feel that we did not hire the man who can take us deep into the playoffs and make us competitive with the heavyweights of the I-AA world. Thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I hope that Fobbs and Todd probe me wrong.
Hey Thrilla, thanks again for developing a site where we can have this discussion.
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Post by antfan2003 on Dec 4, 2005 14:29:25 GMT -5
Well carry on wih your criticism.. the decision is made.. like it or not .. We are where we are... Sounds like you did some good research though....
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Dec 4, 2005 15:25:27 GMT -5
Which is where? And where are we trying to go? And can we truly say that "where we are" is where we need to be?? Is it really that simple for you to take the "oh well" approach and be completely satisfied with what took place. Or is there a small, remote part of you that wonders if we truly got a quality head coach, after a quality search, that looked at the top quality candidates available and interested in this job. Or do you just not give a damn?
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 4, 2005 15:39:55 GMT -5
I think the bottom line is most people will take the "oh well" approach and be completely satisfied, and the few people that give to the Aggie Club will continue to blindly give and either a) not care about results and continue to blindly support or b) not voice their opinions on the matter.
Therefore, we keep repeating the same cycle.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Dec 4, 2005 15:47:15 GMT -5
Freeze,
We all have our own decision making process. We all may not agree with the process of others. I think the criteria used was justified. You don't, so be it. I think a quality coach was hired. I don't take someone to have a Phd. to make a good, sound decision. I see a coach with knowledge of the game and experience at the highhest levels. I see quality. I also saw Doug Williams (Superbowl - MVP) standing by his side last night. Now, do you have anything better to offer than that? Quality is in the pudding, we now just have to taste it.
Let's agree to disagree and move on.
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Dec 4, 2005 16:36:21 GMT -5
I'm sure Bill Parcels would have been by George Small's side had he been in Greensboro too. Although I'm not sure if that has anything to do with whether we hired the right person or not???
We clearly have different expectations of the program though and thats fine. After all, you are the same person who was upset that we ended the Aggie/Eagle classic regardless of the fact that it had been proven that this game under its former structure was not economically feasible for us nor did it help us elevate our program in any way. That didnt matter to you though. All that mattered was that a game that you had grown accustomed to was taken away in the best interest of the university and the program. You didnt stop to think of the inefficieny of renting out NC State every year or the lose/lose situation of playing a D-II opponent that may beat you and further ruin any strength of schedule that we may have had. You wanted to do what always had been done because thats what you were comfortable with.
Rewind to two days ago when A&T had the opportunity to bring in someone with the credentials to elevate this program to a level that I feel doesnt really matter to you, competing for supremacy with the heavyweights of the I-AA world (not just the BCF world) and once again you and other posters are comfortable continuing on in the same manner that we always have because your comfortable with it.
You dont want to study it or ask questions of it, you just want to throw an Aggie cap on Coach Fobbs head and blindly write your check without holding anybody to any real accountability. And when five years or ten years down the road you are scratching your head and wondering what do we need to do to bring in the right person who can elevate our program to the next level and actually win a I-AA championship (the same thought process we all had when they fired Bill Hayes) this moment would have long passed and you may have forgotten that in 2005 we had a shot to do something bigger and better and we blew it.
But like you said, we can agree to disagree.
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 4, 2005 16:41:47 GMT -5
I see a coach with knowledge of the game and experience at the highhest levels. I see quality. I also saw Doug Williams (Superbowl - MVP) standing by his side last night. He doesn't have experience doing the jobs he was hired to do at the highest levels. It's almost scary that you'd think he's a great coach because of who he was standing next to. If Doug (Superbowl - MVP/ never beat a pwc as a head coach) was standing by his side calling plays come next season I'd feel a lot better. When I hear "experience at the highest levels" I think of somebody that's gonna come in and think they're gonna change all the "ills of hbcu football." Guys like Ron Dickerson, James Bell, Ron Cooper, and Ricky Diggs come to mind. These guys all came from the "big time" and fell on their faces "big time." The proof is in the pudding. If you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it. And that is why we were singing the same tune three years ago and will probably be singing it again a few years from now. A.D. makes new hire of coach with less-than-stellar credentials. Some people think for one reason or another coach has ok credentials and we should give him a chance and not bury him before he's coached a game. A.D. gets fired, next saviour comes in. New A.D. gets rid of poor coach and hires new guy that fits new A.D.'s agenda but doesn't come close to fitting the mold of any of the coaches that have been successful in the I-AA playoffs over the past dozen or so years. New guy sucks, A.D. gets fired, repeat cycle for infinity.
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Dec 4, 2005 16:44:53 GMT -5
I wonder if Doug was by his side when Grambling decided to not hire him as their head coach?? But like you said, the proof is in the pudding....so everybody eat up and pass the cool-aid while you're at it.
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Post by antfan2003 on Dec 4, 2005 16:53:39 GMT -5
It seems like some people are going to analyze and over analyze this situation(EVERY SITUATION).. however like i said before.. skeptics can be won over.. cynics(ie well you know who you are)...will find something to moan about so engaging in too much banter isnt really productive because all of the complaining still doesnt negate the fact that the deal is done and we have to understand like i said in my other message that the program is bigger than any of its pieces. So if you understand that you support the program not the pieces of the program then we can begin to move away from the "chitlin circuit" mentality.. When all of us can help the AGGIE CLUBs annual check double.. then we are moving in the right direction.. but if youre one of the ones who does more complaining than giving.. then we will stay right where we are and never move forward....(oh yeah FYI.. $300 isnt really giving).. if you want to talk alot.. give alot.... theres a novel idea because the most sad cycle in our circles is nt changing coaches and AD's its...... supporters complain, but dont give, supporters complain but give $100, supporters complain then give $300, supporters want to make a coaching decision or have input in the process, but they dont give..!!! The reality of it again is that you will NOT have input in ANY process unless youre hired to do so.. you gotta understand that...know your role because thats where youre most valuable... not trying to provide EXPERT analysis of how it SHOULD be done....
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 4, 2005 17:03:00 GMT -5
You can throw all the money in the world at a situation. It's what you do with it that matters.
If the Aggie Club gives 10 million dollars it won't change the man's lack of experience. It won't change the fact that we've cut corners by making him coach and o.c. and that's asinine.
Try telling every other hbcu a.d. that 300 bucks ain't giving. They will spit in your face. They would kill to have the numbers the Aggie Club gives. That being said it could be a lot more. If this man fails it will be a lot less. At the very least a separate o.c. should've been found.
Reality is that 30,000 people show up for homecoming, not for women's softball. While we support the program as a whole football is the breadwinner (or bread loser). If your football program is not strong your booster program will not be strong, period. At 165 k this man is going to have to produce very quickly or else.
If you don't analyze things you get terrible results. And you wonder why you got them. You got them because you didn't bother to analyze them in the first place. If things aren't analyzed correctly we get 3-8 seasons and people wondering how it got so bad, despite the fact that the alumni booster club outgave any other hbcu.
Then we have people thinking we need to fund a junket to Texas and Florida every year and populate our roster with players that will cost us a ton to recruit, a ton to send through school and will have twice the chance of leaving school due to the long distance away from home you've brought them. Instead you could get your whole team from within a three-hour radius and do a great job with them if you hire the right people and give them the right tools. It makes me wanna holler.
I do appreciate the discourse, though. It's good to know where different folks stand on their opinions.
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