DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Jan 11, 2012 11:41:54 GMT -5
The CIAA sells out their tournament and occasionally wins D-II National Championships. They would have nothing to gain from it. This might have been a good idea 25 years ago. An HBCU championship just isn't as appealing anymore. Using football as a reference point the MEAC presidents, boosters and fans wanted no part of a supposed Legacy Bowl which would determine the HBCU national champ. I think it's safe to assume the same would hold true for basketball. Also the MEAC and SWAC rep gets at least $325,000 for participating in the NCAA tournament. How would that income be replaced?
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Post by aggiebred09 on Jan 11, 2012 12:06:41 GMT -5
Decks, nobody would pull out of the NCAA Tourney, No one would stop doing their own tourney. Everyone would get their regular payday and an additional series of games would fall in between Conference Tourneys and the Big Dance.
An HBCU Basketball Championship is appealing. I think that the approach needs to be right in order to appease all involved. With so much going on in the HBCU world on many different levels, I think the idea of a televised National HBCU Tournament, would create a bigger buzz and have a larger draw than you comprehend. Not to mention Football & Basketball are two totally different logistical beasts. It would cost money, but the payout would be bigger and less difficult to manage than a HBCU Football Championship Series.
Bands have the right formula. In essence they have regular season and a Bowl Game known as Honda Battle of the Bands. Different variables same equation.
When the NCAA Tournament was formulated (like the BCS) HBCUs weren't even considered in the planning. Which is why ultimately we are never expected to compete or win. I think the more we try to fit into their frame we lose potential. Cant we continue to appease those that are set on the NCAA while at the same time creating our own unique niche in collegiate sports entertainment?
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Post by ohsixrain on Jan 11, 2012 12:29:12 GMT -5
Well...I think the idea is intriguing but, where you'd get stuck at is...when you have the best of the best tourney and a CIAA team comes out the winner. How will the MEAC or SWAC team be viewed entering the NCAA tourney having lost to a Division 2 team?? I think at best...they would seed no higher than the play-in game in Dayton. That's what would be the hard sell...that's what Oleschool and others mean by putting ourselves at a disadvantage.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 11, 2012 12:33:39 GMT -5
Oldschool saying that is like saying an ACC team should never play a MEAC team, yes its the same division but what is a Big conference team gaining by playing a HBCU? How are the MEAC teams disadvantaged? A good team is a good team. No matter how much passion a NCCU has unless they are good they wont a beat Duke. (Sorry Teams in the CIAA would never have to play a good MEAC team. Only the conference bests would compete and I think the competition would be evenly matched.) We have seen through the years, the level of play in D1 & D2 conferences go back and forth. If ECSU can beat a good MEAC team then they deserve the right to compete. I think by looking over a All-HBCU Basketball Tourney we admit our complex with wanting to be accepted. It wouldn't be like we are opting out of NCAA either, if anything we would make it more accessible for smaller schools. We would get more coverage, more attention and more talent all while still being viable competition in the NCAA. you're not seriously comparing the acc versus the meac to the meac versus the ciaa are you? please tell me you're not? i mean, you don't see the difference? acc men are "far" superior to the meac's men. when an acc school plays an meac school, they consider it an "automatic win" because their talent is far superior to the meac's talent. on the other hand, the meac's talent "is not" far superior to the ciaa's talent, if at all. there's probably not a big drop off at all between the two. acc teams don't stand to risk a loss to meac teams because their talent is so superior to ours, that they can come out flat against us and still easily win the game. on the other hand, the meac cannot come out flat against most ciaa teams and expect to win the game. that's the difference between the two scenario's you raised. there's no glory behind an meac team beating a ciaa team, so what's the meac's motivation to beat a d2 team? on the other hand, a "perceived" underdog that happens to be a d2 team who has as much talent as some meac teams can easily beat a flat meac team. ciaa teams have plenty of motivation to beat a d1 meac team. but what's the meac's team motivation? bragging rights to beating a d2 team? do you really think an meac team would celebrate beating a ciaa team? you do realize that if you're not motivated to beat a team, you're not gonna play your best, don't you? and that's my point. there's no motivation for meac teams to beat ciaa teams...
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Jan 11, 2012 13:34:12 GMT -5
Decks, nobody would pull out of the NCAA Tourney, No one would stop doing their own tourney. Everyone would get their regular payday and an additional series of games would fall in between Conference Tourneys and the Big Dance. An HBCU Basketball Championship is appealing. I think that the approach needs to be right in order to appease all involved. With so much going on in the HBCU world on many different levels, I think the idea of a televised National HBCU Tournament, would create a bigger buzz and have a larger draw than you comprehend. Not to mention Football & Basketball are two totally different logistical beasts. It would cost money, but the payout would be bigger and less difficult to manage than a HBCU Football Championship Series. Bands have the right formula. In essence they have regular season and a Bowl Game known as Honda Battle of the Bands. Different variables same equation. When the NCAA Tournament was formulated (like the BCS) HBCUs weren't even considered in the planning. Which is why ultimately we are never expected to compete or win. I think the more we try to fit into their frame we lose potential. Cant we continue to appease those that are set on the NCAA while at the same time creating our own unique niche in collegiate sports entertainment? Your tournament would have to be sanctioned by the NCAA plus no team can play in multiple postseason tournaments. Furthermore the D-II Regionals will begin on March 10th which is the same day the MEAC & SWAC Tournaments have their championships. Your only option would be to create a tournament that doesn't involve the conference champions or other postseason participants. Remember, the MEAC & SWAC regular season champs get an invite to the NIT if they don't win the conference tourney and the CIAA/SIAC may receive several playoff invites. In the end you'd have a bunch of teams with losing records participating. I don't think that would be very attractive to anyone, especially potential sponsors.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 11, 2012 13:46:45 GMT -5
I'm with Decks. Nothing is wrong with the MEAC tournament when you compare it to other non-"Power" conferences. Its when you try to compare it to the CIAA is when you have a problem.
Yeah, it could be a little more events surrounding it IF you want to be the CIAA. Other than that you have to increase the basketball product of the MEAC and market that. Right now we just dont do that.
Correct me if I'm wrong but when the CIAA blew up it was because they marketed the basketball tournament itself first? The parties came afterwards and took attendance and local impact to a new level? I remember when the MEAC was in VA back before coming to Raleigh and I didn't here not one peep about the tournament while it was going on. In Raleigh they really tried and I think if it could have stayed it would have gotten larger, but Raleigh didn't want to keep it. The RBC was just to big time of a venue for it at that time. It swallowed those small crowds. They saw it as "we can make this type of money bringing something else in without paying for it." They could have a huge concert or trade show and make more money.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 11, 2012 14:16:42 GMT -5
no, the rbc venue itself wasn't too big for the meac tournament. it was much more cozier than say the greensboro coliseum when it was there. the size and accommodations of the rbc wasn't the problem. the problem was that raleigh didn't feel it was generating enough revenue for them.
i wish it had stayed in raleigh as opposed to winston. there's a lot more to do in raleigh than there is in winston. i felt the rbc was a great facility for the meac and because of the raleigh/durham airport, easier for out of state meac schools to get to than the joel.
i just wish our men could make it to the weekend rounds because i ain't going otherwise. unless of course our women make it at least to the semi's...
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Post by The Professor on Jan 11, 2012 14:19:57 GMT -5
Who says i'm not? All i want is a plan or some kind of knowledge of what he is thinking? We go thru AD , after AD , after AD. And they are tied to their hires. All i ask is what is his thinking process and criteria? Does he have to tell me, OF COURSE NOT. But why not try something different when all your predecessors went and did it the usual way and have been fired? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...................... Professor..........sigh! This convo is getting old cause you keep contradicting yourself. First you want a plan, then you dont, now you do AGAIN. I believe, I dont believe. I have no faith, but yet I'm going to give him a chance. I want a plan, but dont want a plan. Later man. How am I? I have said from the beginning , I would like a plan or Vision or some type of information as to where the AD is going to take our athletic department. When have i said different? I have even said it should be goals for each sport. That message has been constant Its that simple.
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Jan 11, 2012 14:20:20 GMT -5
Commissioner Thomas & the MEAC office messed things up in Raleigh.
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Post by The Professor on Jan 11, 2012 14:21:17 GMT -5
Who says i'm not? All i want is a plan or some kind of knowledge of what he is thinking? We go thru AD , after AD , after AD. And they are tied to their hires. All i ask is what is his thinking process and criteria? Does he have to tell me, OF COURSE NOT. But why not try something different when all your predecessors went and did it the usual way and have been fired? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result...................... Professor, why don't you contact Hilton or McAlpin to have some of your questions answered? Both are very approachable. Heck, I once emailed McAlpin with some concerns I had and he surprisingly gave me a phone call the same day. I'm surprised Hilton didn't reply to your email because that's something he prides himself on. Perhaps Thrilla can arrange an interview with both of em at some point in the future? I have, he hasn't responded. Have sent several emails
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 11, 2012 14:37:09 GMT -5
no, the rbc venue itself wasn't too big for the meac tournament. it was much more cozier than say the greensboro coliseum when it was there. the size and accommodations of the rbc wasn't the problem. the problem was that raleigh didn't feel it was generating enough revenue for them. i wish it had stayed in raleigh as opposed to winston. there's a lot more to do in raleigh than there is in winston. i felt the rbc was a great facility for the meac and because of the raleigh/durham airport, easier for out of state meac schools to get to than the joel. i just wish our men could make it to the weekend rounds because i ain't going otherwise. unless of course our women make it at least to the semi's... "Big TIME" of a venue is what I said. Not too big. It means the same thing you just said. They weren't making enough money from the MEAC. They have stuff at RBC that equals what they make from the MEAC and dont have to staff it for 4 days like a basketball tournament. That was also before the new Convention center and all the stuff they do downtown now in Raleigh. They just felt like it was not worth it with the plans they had in the future. Cities pay for stuff like this based on how much tax revenue it will bring in. The MEAC just didn't do it for Raleigh based on the numbers. It was more Omegas here for their conclave downtown than it was people at the MEAC tournament and they didn't have to pay them to come.
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Post by aggiebred09 on Jan 11, 2012 16:55:38 GMT -5
Ill give up my All-HBCU Basketball Tournament Dream.... But we have to start doing things differently. Start incorporating more voices at every level. A&T is not bad but we are only a mirror image of the larger picture. Either we are forced to move forward or we are left behind as characters of ourselves.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 11, 2012 17:13:24 GMT -5
i'm just very disappointed with my alma mater when it comes to athletics, period. i mean, its embarrassing if you look at it from top to bottom. a lot of the younger alums don't really know what they've been missing as far as fan turnout goes.
man, when we're on top or near the top "consistently", our folks turn out big time! i just think our administration (from the chancellor(s) on down) that have been in office over the last 10 to 15 years have literally "destroyed" our athletic department thru neglect. the only chancellor that i'll give a pass to during that time is dr. martin because he hasn't been in office long enough to make a big difference yet.
back in the day, a&t "always" led the meac in home basketball attendance. now look at us? we use to win the men's championship almost every year. now look at us? we should be called "no meac championship university" considering how long and infrequently its been since we win championships. no reason a university the size of ours should rank near the very bottom of meac athletics...
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Post by aggiebred09 on Jan 11, 2012 17:15:45 GMT -5
Number 1 or 2 HBCU in the nation in terms of student enrollment. There is no excuse as to why we should lag behind in ANYTHING.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Jan 11, 2012 17:39:40 GMT -5
I'm with Decks. Nothing is wrong with the MEAC tournament when you compare it to other non-"Power" conferences. Its when you try to compare it to the CIAA is when you have a problem. Yeah, it could be a little more events surrounding it IF you want to be the CIAA. Other than that you have to increase the basketball product of the MEAC and market that. Right now we just dont do that. Correct me if I'm wrong but when the CIAA blew up it was because they marketed the basketball tournament itself first? The parties came afterwards and took attendance and local impact to a new level? I remember when the MEAC was in VA back before coming to Raleigh and I didn't here not one peep about the tournament while it was going on. In Raleigh they really tried and I think if it could have stayed it would have gotten larger, but Raleigh didn't want to keep it. The RBC was just to big time of a venue for it at that time. It swallowed those small crowds. They saw it as "we can make this type of money bringing something else in without paying for it." They could have a huge concert or trade show and make more money. I'm no authority on the CIAA but I did have good friends that shared with me the CIAA's Tournament financial numbers and issues for years. For a long time (up until the early 1990's) the CIAA Tournament was viewed as a private party for the various college officials and the players. After the Tournament private parties, shopping trips and hotel expenses, there was little funds left. But late in the 1990's the CIAA really discovered "corporate sponsors" and started to do a better job shopping their product to the highest bidders. Now they are on solid footing and are the premier HBCU basketball event.
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