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Post by Aggie One on May 19, 2011 14:10:14 GMT -5
You took the words right out of my mouth. Dead on point Dooms.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 14:10:26 GMT -5
We also can't forget the allure of the drug game and/or rap game for many young black boys and black men. Even at A&T, you have many young black men focusing their time becoming rappers & producers and even selling weed & other drugs on the side.
It's hard to encourage a black kid to become a carpenter or a person with a trade or to even enter into school when we have the allure of drugs and the rap game out here.
I just do not see this changing anything soon. All we can really do is to be that positive influence as a father/uncle/brother for our families and becoming a positive mentor in our neighborhoods.
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Post by DOOMS on May 19, 2011 14:22:31 GMT -5
I think if the kids knew that the average dope dealer isn't making any more (and probably less) than the average carpenter or plumber, they might change their aspirations. Or that the average rapper is broke in a few years (or less). And the honest worker isn't worried when the cops come by and doesn't have to protect his turf with a gun battle.
Reality isn't being portrayed and kids are being raised by tv and their peers.
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Post by aggielove on May 19, 2011 14:58:58 GMT -5
Dooms, you beat me to it. most of the local dope boys aren't making any significant $$. Hell, with all of the network marketing organizations available, if those boys on the block put the same effort into them that they put into selling a nickel bag and "reppin their hood," they'd be more successful. I think the all male trade school is a good place to begin. Aggie08, those for-profit institutions are a good resource for folks that weren't academically eligible to enroll in a normal school. However, the cost of attending one of those institutions can be pretty high, especially when compared to your local, in-state college.
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@ProfBellamy
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Post by @ProfBellamy on May 19, 2011 15:27:11 GMT -5
Are we talking about Historically Black Community Colleges and if so whats the difference between them and current CC's? No, I'm just talking about Community College's in general. There are a few HBCU's that either are public community colleges, two-year junior colleges, etc. That is a possible model to tap into if they can be priced competitively and marketed correctly.
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@ProfBellamy
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Post by @ProfBellamy on May 19, 2011 15:33:59 GMT -5
Guilford County Schools back in the late 90s started flirting with bring industrial ed back into the schools and have done so in a hap-hazard fashion. However when you look at the literature they have with those programs its directly connected to a academic program at GTCC, A&T or UNCG.
The process needs to be looked at again, maybe from the state level at how to re-engage students in Industrial Ed and connect to to requisite programs at a community college so that students by the age of 19/20 received the skills in HS along with maybe an additional certificate/associates in that trade.
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Post by basefoot00 on May 19, 2011 19:26:42 GMT -5
Everyday I see the lives of these Black Male students being waisted. Its almost like they have a fear of excelling. We used to have the excuse of the system not being set up for us. Things aren't completely solved now but there are far more opportunities for students to make good use of their time than what they typically do. I would love to see a program designed to teach a skill or trade as well as valuable life lessons to young males it is definitely needed. My only fear is it being treated like a boot camp more than an institution of higher learning. I see the same things at my school happening daily too. I think it comes from a lot of things: failure to want to excel, fear of failing so why try, and the excuses and list goes on. I think that DOOMS has brought a great topic and it would be interesting to see. The culture and mind set has to change for our black males because it gets pretty depressing some days. I really wish that more people would go volunteer their time and efforts in the schools. I know I feel as an educator too often the people up top making the budget cuts and huge decisions don't have any idea what it is like behind the doors and walls of our schools. I also agree that we need to teach kids trades because everyone is not going to be a doctor or lawyer. They can make a lot of money being a plumber etc. The alure of the fast money is still in a lot of our communities and it has to be changed. I think too many of our youth think that someone owes them something. I also believe that too many of our youth don't know thier history and don't care.
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Post by Aggie Monster on May 19, 2011 19:54:42 GMT -5
Interesting topic. About the industrial ed thing. Trade classes are at the local CC's, well at least in Wake county they are. Even if these struggling HBCUs offer this stuff i dont think we'll take advantage. You guys already hit all the points why.
I have to constantly remind my son that I will kick his a$$ cause he tries to "fit-in". I always have to explain why you dont do this or that. These boys dont have good men NOR women at home. You almost have to take your son and his entire crew and raise them all to make sure yours stays straight.
And to add, some Durham county high schools have a college track and a trade track if they dont think your right for college. Some argue that you're giving up to early on the kids you place in the trade track. I'm split about it.
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Post by DOOMS on May 19, 2011 20:11:58 GMT -5
Wifey was telling me that in Germany they put kids in a trade track or college track in fifth grade. I immediately grumbled "that's too early." She said they have the option of switching if they don't like what they're doing, and they have to pass a test upon graduation. She said that the culture is such that they value you for whatever career you choose and they just expect you to do your best at it.
Our culture says make money make money money money (and spend it). We need to somehow shift our cultural thinking. I tell my little cousins constantly that making money shouldn't be your goal, knowledge should be your goal. They can change the value of your dollar overnight, but they can't change the need for your skills. Gas was 79 cents a gallon when I was their age. If I made what I thought was a decent wage back then, I'd be on public assistance.
I think enough folks would take advantage of the programs to keep the struggling hbcus going and to make a difference. We probably have 10 (totally uninformed and plucking a number out of my tail) hbcus that really need to take a hard look at changing their core mission. We've got over 50% black males every year that ain't graduating. Even if just 10% of them want to make a new start far away from their negative influences at home, the schools are operating at full capacity. We just got to find a way to fund them.
I really hated when Chancellor Battle left. I felt like he was making inroads into educating Greensboro at large as opposed to whoever showed up at A&T for a semester.
My father told me he was a brick masonry major during his short time at A&T (he eventually went to the Navy and finished at another hbcu). I clowned him and he shut me up quick by saying "isht boy, you know how much a brick mason makes? I'd probably have more cash on hand than I do now."
But we've got to teach more than a trade. Cats need morals and people skills too.
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on May 19, 2011 20:34:31 GMT -5
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Post by Freeze on May 19, 2011 20:36:40 GMT -5
Wifey was telling me that in Germany they put kids in a trade track or college track in fifth grade. Just had some remodeling done at my home and our contractor was from Switzerland. He said that's how he got his skills.
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Post by DOOMS on May 20, 2011 6:15:02 GMT -5
I read your thoughts Freeze and I'm in full agreement (surprise). I remember that Chancellor Battle had set up a program where kids would go to GTCC for two years and upon successful completion of the program would be enrolled in A&T automatically (or something like that).
Say what you want about that cat, but he understood the big picture and was making moves to rectify our numerous problems. Granted, he had a penchant for getting sued, but again, he understood the big picture.
Methinks it's ridiculous to offer trade school certificates at a four-year institution. Medontthinks it's ridiculous to steer kids towards place where they can get those certificates, with the promise of enrollment at a four-year institution if their interests change down the road.
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Post by morrisonmafia73 on May 20, 2011 10:16:42 GMT -5
I teach middle school(special education). Just finished first round of testing. In 8th grade alone we have to retest 150 students out of 200 in reading.They do fairly well in math. We need to teach them how to read. This is why we have a lot of discipline problems, they cant read and they dont want their peers to know. They then can be labled the class clown.Wife is right about 5th grade. I would suggest at the latest 6th grade. You have to hook the students to doing something that may have an interest. If they are retained in elementary school, then again in middle school, by the time they are in 9th grade high school they are very close to 16 and ready(will) to drop out. I say teach them how to paint a wall, drive a nail or something so they can at least have some pride about what they CAN do instead of what they cant do. The education system is really messed up at this time.
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@ProfBellamy
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Post by @ProfBellamy on May 20, 2011 12:03:59 GMT -5
I read your thoughts Freeze and I'm in full agreement (surprise). I remember that Chancellor Battle had set up a program where kids would go to GTCC for two years and upon successful completion of the program would be enrolled in A&T automatically (or something like that). Say what you want about that cat, but he understood the big picture and was making moves to rectify our numerous problems. Granted, he had a penchant for getting sued, but again, he understood the big picture. Methinks it's ridiculous to offer trade school certificates at a four-year institution. Medontthinks it's ridiculous to steer kids towards place where they can get those certificates, with the promise of enrollment at a four-year institution if their interests change down the road. One of the goals of the expanded 2+2 program with GTCC and many of the other community colleges were to make a four year college accessible to more students. Working in a community college now, I value real articulation agreements... A&T is in a unique position where we still offer industrial arts (applied engineering, industrial technology, or the new name for...) and it makes sense that we expand upon that. As a land-grant institution we focus on helping society and many of the practical aspects of life. The direction we must go is to continue partnering with our community colleges especially in fields that we don't have many competitors such as Agriculture (NCSU), Applied Engineering (ECU, NCSU, ASU), Animal Sciences (NCSU) to name a few off the top of my head. Students can learn real skills and work in those areas, and we can work to expand distance education so enhance their skills and improve our reach.
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Post by DOOMS on May 20, 2011 12:58:56 GMT -5
Do we stop with community colleges or go further? I'm thinking we need to start early, VERY early. By the time many black youth (specifically boys) hit kindergarten, they are a lost cause for one reason or another.
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