Lessons from Bill McCartney?

[Maxell]

I just saw an interview with the legendary coach from the University of Colorado, Bill McCartney. For those that don't know he was D-I coach of the year in 1989 and 1990. His Colorado Buffaloes played for the National Championship both years and won it in 1990. He coached at Colorado for 12 years after being a coordinator at Michigan for the previous 9 years. Some interesting points from his interview.

1. He only won 6 games in his first 3 years, only 8 games in his next 3 years. When asked how did he make it through the early years he said that he had a president and an athletic director that believed in him, period.

2. He realized when he arrived on campus that he didn't have the talent to compete and he had to rebuild. He had an in-state strategy and and out-of-state strategy.

3. His out-of-state strategy was to recruit hard in Texas and California because (a) they were talent rich states and (b) Colorado had an appeal to kids from both states.

4. His in-state strategy was to was to bring all of his in-state recruits in on the same week. They bonded on that recruiting weekend and vowed to turn the program around together. So he began to sign the majority of in-state kids that he recruited.

5. When recruiting, he sold the school. He believed that if he got a kid on campus that they would love the campus atmosphere and he had a better than 50/50 shot to sign him.

6. When he got to Colorado, they had no real rivalry that stood out. So he created one, Nebraska and focused on it. They were a stellar program and instilled in his teams from spring practice that they were preparing to beat Nebraska each year. He made sure that every part of his program was made equal to or superior to Nebraska's, from their weight program to their position teaching techniques.

7. The last thing he said was he won because he went out and got the best talent that he could find. His president and AD made sure he had the resources to get it. You can't win in D-I without it.

It was a great interview. Are there any lessons in there for our program?

[DOOMS]

Not really. I'll tell you why.

He had the money and support of the administration to implement those things. We have a "chancellor on an interim basis" that felt it necessary to go to the local rag and profess he will have final say-so on any transfers that come in. Meanwhile the budget ain't gone up since Clinton was getting fellated by Lewinski, but the expenses sure have.

We have to stop trying to emulate I-A schools. We have to emulate smaller schools. Why? We're a smaller school. The I-A model is just different across the board. When we fail to realize that (and we have, miserably) we fail (and we have, miserably). I'd be curious to know what a school with our retarded budget that has sustained success on a national level has been doing. We all should be curious to know that.

[Bornthrilla]

Dooms, I think you missed Mawell's other points about recruiting techniques and how McCartney built a solid program from the ground up, slowly but steadily.

Once again, our lack of money is not the only reason we've struggled lately. We always talk about the meager athletic budget, but their are other factors involved in making a football program successful.

[DOOMS]

I probably did miss them because I know our greatest two enemies have been lack of money and hiring practices that weren't well thought out.

Let's see...

1. He only won 6 games in his first 3 years, only 8 games in his next 3 years. When asked how did he make it through the early years he said that he had a president and an athletic director that believed in him, period.

Our chancellor won't be here much longer (thank goodness) and the previous chancellor fired two coaches in three years. At least the new a.d. (the third one in about five years) believes in the new coach. Sadly the main thing that will keep Coach Fobbs around will be the lack of money to buy his contract out. But this works in our favor so long as we see improvement, no matter how slow. We will not get better if we keep firing people.

2. He realized when he arrived on campus that he didn't have the talent to compete and he had to rebuild. He had an in-state strategy and and out-of-state strategy.
Fobbs has learned that by now. He supposedly has a recruiting strategy as well. Let's see if he gets the money to implement it.

3. His out-of-state strategy was to recruit hard in Texas and California because (a) they were talent rich states and (b) Colorado had an appeal to kids from both states.
We can't feasibly recruit hard in either. It costs money to do that. We could maybe do Florida but who isn't in Florida these days. Coach Small was smart to chase Ohio. Too bad he didn't hardly play any of them boys.

4. His in-state strategy was to was to bring all of his in-state recruits in on the same week. They bonded on that recruiting weekend and vowed to turn the program around together. So he began to sign the majority of in-state kids that he recruited.
I think we do that now. The difference there is there are only three I-A schools in Colorado and at the time McCartney was there there were only two worth attending and only one that didn't require you to fly for four years after you played. It just so happened McCartney coached at the one worth attending that didn't have you up at 4:30 a.m. doing aeronautical engineering classwork. Not to mention we sit in a state with nearly 30 football playing colleges. That's a whoooole lot to compete against for in-state recruits.

5. When recruiting, he sold the school. He believed that if he got a kid on campus that they would love the campus atmosphere and he had a better than 50/50 shot to sign him.
Again, we're competing against almost 30 football playing schools in-state. It costs money to recruit and offer a kid out-of-state. Our campus atmosphere is great unless you're watching us lose a football game. But we ain't the only hbcu offering a great campus atmosphere.

6. When he got to Colorado, they had no real rivalry that stood out. So he created one, Nebraska and focused on it. They were a stellar program and instilled in his teams from spring practice that they were preparing to beat Nebraska each year. He made sure that every part of his program was made equal to or superior to Nebraska's, from their weight program to their position teaching techniques.
We've got several rivals. It would be ideal to focus on Appalachian State (like I've been saying for over a year) but the key is they have a lot more money than we do to fund their program's infrastructure. It would take a ton of money for us to improve on what they're doing.

7. The last thing he said was he won because he went out and got the best talent that he could find. His president and AD made sure he had the resources to get it. You can't win in D-I without it.
...money...

thrilla et al, I know y'all are tired of reading it but it does come down to money. A refusal to increase the athletics budget in six years led directly to where we are now. Coach Hayes, as excellent a coach for our school as I've realized he was, would not be able to win under these circumstances. Before we talk about anything else we have to put a ton of money into this program inorder to replace the rubber bands, duct tape and band aids with mortar and brick.

[antfan2003]

Good points about App and the other programs that have money. The major difference between them and US is that when those programs WERE down, their alums, friends and supporters didnt profess that they werent going to give until things got better(as some have on here). PWC supporters are TRUE supporters and they continued to give because they love the programs that they are supporting.. and im going to go out on a limb and say thats why THOSE programs have the unlimited resources and WE dont..

[DOOMS]

Wrong on so many levels.

The major difference between us and them is their athletic department didn't hold the budget for six years straight.

Their alumni also hold the administration accountable for their decisions. They often threaten to withhold money if they feel the administration is making a stupid decision. PWC supporters are informed supporters that do not give blindly, they give wisely. They don't support foolishness (as some have on here).

They sometimes threaten to withhold money because they love the programs they are supporting. It's similar to raising a child. Do you let them run the streets or do you discipline them. Withholding money is discipline. I can't count how many pwc programs immediately got better when the alumni associations started holding the administration accountable for their decisions via the checkbook as opposed to saying "here's some more money for you to wipe your a$$ with" (as some have on here).

There's a huge difference between giving to help when the school is down and refusing to put up with outright bad decision-making and refusing to support the school as long as it refuses to support itself.

Get off that limb. It's fin to break.

[DOOMS]

I guess the limb broke on his a$$. In any event instead of Bill McCartney, lets get some lessons from Bill Hayes. If thrilla ever finds that old interview and posts it there are numerous things coach Hayes did to build the program that we can use to rebuild the program.

In addition, we all know Coach Fobbs is pretty well-respected and knows a few guys. If he ever gets time Fobbs could have a weekend football camp with Doug Williams and a few of them Tampa Bay players if they'd be willing to do it for free or cheap. We might could get a few guys to come to us as players a few years later. I'd think Doug would do it. He got Lee into this mess.

[Gator]

2003,

You hit it on the nose.

[Maxell]

doomsday said:

I guess the limb broke on his a$$. In any event instead of Bill McCartney, lets get some lessons from Bill Hayes. If thrilla ever finds that old interview and posts it there are numerous things coach Hayes did to build the program that we can use to rebuild the program.

It doesn't have to be "instead of" it can be "in addition to".

[antfan2003]

Nah.. nothing broke on me.. I just chose not to keep responding back to you because YOUR R ALWAYS RIGHT because you do this "schit" as you call it.. for a living.. so why argue with you.. your facts are the only facts and your ideas are the ONLY ones that will save our failing football program. Soo i let you pontificate.....

But smoke on this fact.. to date.. this year Carolina has raised 14.5 million in their annual fund... thats since July 1.... hmmm im sure all that wasnt given in july and august... they have continued to give in order to sustain the program..not threaten to withhold monies so that they can get what they want... thats not how successful programs do it... NOW im sure DOOMS will have something profound to respond.. so ill get off now..

[DOOMS]

Funny you should pick Carolina. Riddle me this...

A month ago the Carolina a.d. said he couldn't buy out Bunting's contract. Some big boosters said either Bunting goes or our money goes.

A month later they found the money to buy out Bunting and they're hiring Butch Davis.

At the risk of talking to a brick wall some more, they did not blindly contribute. Had Bunting stayed on you would see empty seats and empty coffers. That's the way it's generally done.

I don't think my facts and ideas are the only ones that will save our failing program. I just don't think throwing money blindly at ideas that plainly have not worked in the past will save it either. What will save it is studying and emulating programs that are successful at our level and holding people accountable for their decisions. To date we have done damn near the opposite. I've given over 10 grand to A&T only to end up watching grad rates fall and losing programs. To me, it's time for a change.

I read a book where former A&T president Warmouth T. Gibbs stated "we don't tell our students what to think, we teach them how to think." By '03 he was obviously long gone and so were his ideals. It looks like we don't even teach them how to write anymore.

I don't begrudge your desire to continue to throw your money into a black hole. How bout you don't begrudge my desire to use my money to ensure we have better results and well-thought out solutions?

[TOPPDOGG]

Damn you Doomsday!

[TOPPDOGG]

Dooms is right throwing money at a bad situation won't fix things, but if we take money away then we know that we'll destroy the program. It's a catch-22.

[DOOMS]

Look here Carl Thomas (insert laugh track here)...

Seriously though, I'll be honest. On the private forum I've been stating ad nauseum we need to threaten to pull money and not actually do it. Ain't no way in hell A&T ain't getting my grand come next June and by the end of basketball season if all goes well I'll have given a grand to the aggie club (because they'll have earned it). A&T is just going to have to sweat bullets until then thinking I ain't giving jack. Of course if you don't know me you don't know that.

It's the threat that changes things. But even if the school stubbornly refuses to up the athletic budget for the seventh year in a row and every member of the Aggie Club doesn't give money what happens? The athletic department loses 150 grand. Ouch. That honestly won't destroy the program any more than it's already been destroyed. I'm just hoping that it will get the school to ante up and provide these kids with a proper education and decent budget to allow them to be competitive.

The alternative is a) hoping for the best (which I've never been a big fan of) or b)watching apathy set in and wondering "what happened."

The ultimate way to expand upon Bill McCartney's theories behind building a winning program (the original topic of this thread, sorry Maxell) is to first get the school to commit. We gave 150 large. That's what, 20 football scholarships? More people will give when we win more. That's the nature of the beast. We will win more when the school makes winning a priority by putting some money behind these programs and improving retention. Anybody can tell people what they should do all day but they ain't gonna do it until they're convinced. Nothing convices like being able to brag. Can't brag when you're on the wrong end of 70-7 to a church school.

[JayBee]

Dooms,
So when is the best time to initiate the threat...after the new chancellor is named?