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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Mar 26, 2018 9:27:29 GMT -5
best aggie men's team in history and best aggie women's team in history would be good material for debate too... Actually, not really. No men's team is better than the '86-87 team that went 26-3..in MEAC history. Even over Fang's 93 and 98 squads. There is a conversation for the women's teams, but I'm taking the 2005-06 MEAC champions over everyone. No one is stopping Amber Bland. Matter of fact, I'll put up that team against Howard's '97-98 team as the best MEAC women's team ever. The '87-88 squad was 26-3 and had a 14 seed in the NCAA Tourney. They lost to Syracuse 69-55 in the 1st round. But being objective... still have to put Fang Mitchell's '96-97 Coppin St. squad over them with the 15-point win over #2 seed South Carolina and 1-point loss to Texas in the 2nd round of the NCAA Tourney. The women's '08-09 squad with Amber, Tweet and Jaleesa vs. the 2017-18 Lockdown? Toss-up for me... |
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Mar 26, 2018 9:41:14 GMT -5
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Mar 26, 2018 10:57:04 GMT -5
I will put the men's 1967 team that won the CIAA Championship and was the only team to defeat the Earl "The Pearl" Monroe led WSSU Rams who won the National Championship that year as the best team in A&T's history. I base this on the competition of the teams A&T and other HBCU teams played in those days. Because of segregation the CIAA had the best black players in the land. That is why in those days the NBA sent more scouts to the CIAA Tourney than any other tournament in America - including the ACC. After integration, HBCU schools did not get the cream of the crop in players. The white colleges began to take our best players and the talent level began to decline in all HBCU schools. We will never agree on who is the best player in A&T history nor who had the best team because of different eras of viewership. I have been viewing Aggie basketball since 1962 and I have a pretty good idea of who were the best teams and best players were. Regardless, we have had a great history in basketball under Coaches Cal Irvin and Don Corbett. We may be on that course again with our new found recent success. Time will tell. 1967- Winston won the DII title with Earl the Pearl UCLA won the DI title with Lew Alcindor Houston had Elvin Hayes Charlie Scott didn't come to UNC until the 1968 season. The ACC was virtually still segregated. A few questions: 1) How would have A&T and WSSU fared against the Houston's/UCLA's of the world at that time? 2) I've looked at my dad's old yearbooks in the past and I saw A&T losing to schools like High Point or Guilford.......with those games being the final game of the season. Were smaller schools in the area (ie. Guilford, Greensboro, High Point) loaded with black players/mixed/or white players only? |
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Mar 26, 2018 11:06:50 GMT -5
I will put the men's 1967 team that won the CIAA Championship and was the only team to defeat the Earl "The Pearl" Monroe led WSSU Rams who won the National Championship that year as the best team in A&T's history. I base this on the competition of the teams A&T and other HBCU teams played in those days. Because of segregation the CIAA had the best black players in the land. That is why in those days the NBA sent more scouts to the CIAA Tourney than any other tournament in America - including the ACC. After integration, HBCU schools did not get the cream of the crop in players. The white colleges began to take our best players and the talent level began to decline in all HBCU schools. We will never agree on who is the best player in A&T history nor who had the best team because of different eras of viewership. I have been viewing Aggie basketball since 1962 and I have a pretty good idea of who were the best teams and best players were. Regardless, we have had a great history in basketball under Coaches Cal Irvin and Don Corbett. We may be on that course again with our new found recent success. Time will tell. 1967- Winston won the DII title with Earl the Pearl UCLA won the DI title with Lew Alcindor Houston had Elvin Hayes Charlie Scott didn't come to UNC until the 1968 season. The ACC was virtually still segregated. A few questions: 1) How would have A&T and WSSU fared against the Houston's/UCLA's of the world at that time? 2) I've looked at my dad's old yearbooks in the past and I saw A&T losing to schools like High Point or Guilford.......with those games being the final game of the season. Were smaller schools in the area (ie. Guilford, Greensboro, High Point) loaded with black players/mixed/or white players only? I think HP was starting to get their share. One of those was Tubby Smith, who ended up at High Point instead of Maryland and played from 1969-73. And... Tubby is now back at HP as head coach as of this weekend. www.midmajormadness.com/2018/3/25/17161992/tubby-smith-high-point-coaching-carousel-ncaa-basketball-memphis-texas-techThanks for that segway, sir. |
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Post by aggieepower1990 on Mar 26, 2018 11:13:03 GMT -5
I believe Guilford had World B. Free and M L Carr on the same team.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Mar 26, 2018 11:15:53 GMT -5
I hear whatcha saying, but I'm talking about in the 1960's.........the 70's were a transition point as far as integration was a concern.
I'm looking at A&T's 1967 season....
They lost to Guilford 85-84
They lost to Akron 91-75
In the 1968-69 season.....
They lost to Elon 102-84 to end the season
In the 1969-70 season....
They lost to Guilford College 80-72 to end the season
For the "more mature" Aggies out there......IN THE 1960's (not early 70's) what was the composition of such teams like Guilford or Elon?
I'm really curious about this one....
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Mar 26, 2018 11:16:53 GMT -5
I believe Guilford had World B. Free and M L Carr on the same team. That was 1973, when they beat UMES to win the NAIA title.......I'm more focused on the 60's |
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Mar 26, 2018 11:21:25 GMT -5
I believe Guilford had World B. Free and M L Carr on the same team. Wow. Carr got to Guilford in 1969, the same time that Tubby Smith got to High Point. You can see the shift starting to happen around that time. |
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Post by aggierattler on Mar 26, 2018 15:43:25 GMT -5
Gene Littles should have been at High Point in the late ‘6Os, too. I think that he was playing for the Carolina Cougars by 1970 or 1971.
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Post by aggieepower1990 on Mar 26, 2018 18:48:33 GMT -5
Interesting discussion on the transition. In 2002-04 time frame I spoke to a player from the early 60s, I dont remember his name. This player was critical of the way Hunter recruited players and not enlisting the alumni in Philly, NYC and elsewhere. The other interesting thing from the conversation was that some of the best players in the country wanted to come to A&T, including Walt Bellamy. According to this alum, the players at the time we’re not able to convince Irvin to offer Bellamy who went to Indiana, and on to be a Hall Famer. Can any of the Sixties Aggies confirm this?
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Post by SixtiesAggie on Mar 27, 2018 3:16:04 GMT -5
Gene Littles should have been at High Point in the late ‘6Os, too. I think that he was playing for the Carolina Cougars by 1970 or 1971. You need to look for the old Carolinas Conference that desegregated southern intercollegiate athletics when Western Carolina recruited Henry Logan, the first Black to play in the South. Dwight Durante was at Catawba the next year and Gene Little at High Point the next year after Durante or the same year. Logan was recruited in 1963 and played in 63 or 64. He played in the pros a few years but old high school, college and pro knee injuries shortened his career early. When the Carolinas Conference (North and South Carolina) opened their doors to integration in the early and mid 60s, a lot of Black players changed the landscape in the South by drawing record crowds to see the phenomes play. Hence, HBCUs competition for players was no longer just HBCUs, but now the smaller white conferences (Southeast and Southwest) were after the same players. Then a few years later, the larger conferences in the South saw the success the smaller white schools were enjoying by recruiting these exceptional athletes. The revenue stream was greater because of the over flow crowds attending games. The smaller schools started to move their games to larger venues. So, most white schools started integrating their sports at the end of the 60s. However, they did it in small steps. So now, due to integration, HBCU students don't have the luxury of having the best players in the world all to themselves anymore. Oh, A&T played closed scrimmages against the Elons and Guilfords back in the 50 and 60s, as did John McClendon against Duke. What do you think the outcomes were? Integration hurt. |
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Post by aggierattler on Mar 27, 2018 10:11:20 GMT -5
Gene Littles should have been at High Point in the late ‘6Os, too. I think that he was playing for the Carolina Cougars by 1970 or 1971. You need to look for the old Carolinas Conference that desegregated southern intercollegiate athletics when Western Carolina recruited Henry Logan, the first Black to play in the South. Dwight Durante was at Catawba the next year and Gene Little at High Point the next year after Durante or the same year. Logan was recruited in 1963 and played in 63 or 64. He played in the pros a few years but old high school, college and pro knee injuries shortened his career early. When the Carolinas Conference (North and South Carolina) opened their doors to integration in the early and mid 60s, a lot of Black players changed the landscape in the South by drawing record crowds to see the phenomes play. Hence, HBCUs competition for players was no longer just HBCUs, but now the smaller white conferences (Southeast and Southwest) were after the same players. Then a few years later, the larger conferences in the South saw the success the smaller white schools were enjoying by recruiting these exceptional athletes. The revenue stream was greater because of the over flow crowds attending games. The smaller schools started to move their games to larger venues. So, most white schools started integrating their sports at the end of the 60s. However, they did it in small steps. So now, due to integration, HBCU students don't have the luxury of having the best players in the world all to themselves anymore. Oh, A&T played closed scrimmages against the Elons and Guilfords back in the 50 and 60s, as did John McClendon against Duke. What do you think the outcomes were? Integration hurt.
I just tried to call Gene Littles but was not able to get him. However, I did see that he finished playing at High Point in '69. I also remember seeing Coach Irvin's squads playing both Guilford and High Point closed scrimmages in Moore Gym...but I don't think that an "integrated environment" would have been an issue at that time (between '67 and '70).
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 27, 2018 10:22:23 GMT -5
I will put the men's 1967 team that won the CIAA Championship and was the only team to defeat the Earl "The Pearl" Monroe led WSSU Rams who won the National Championship that year as the best team in A&T's history. I base this on the competition of the teams A&T and other HBCU teams played in those days. Because of segregation the CIAA had the best black players in the land. That is why in those days the NBA sent more scouts to the CIAA Tourney than any other tournament in America - including the ACC. After integration, HBCU schools did not get the cream of the crop in players. The white colleges began to take our best players and the talent level began to decline in all HBCU schools. We will never agree on who is the best player in A&T history nor who had the best team because of different eras of viewership. I have been viewing Aggie basketball since 1962 and I have a pretty good idea of who were the best teams and best players were. Regardless, we have had a great history in basketball under Coaches Cal Irvin and Don Corbett. We may be on that course again with our new found recent success. Time will tell. 1967- Winston won the DII title with Earl the Pearl UCLA won the DI title with Lew Alcindor Houston had Elvin Hayes Charlie Scott didn't come to UNC until the 1968 season. The ACC was virtually still segregated. A few questions: 1) How would have A&T and WSSU fared against the Houston's/UCLA's of the world at that time? 2) I've looked at my dad's old yearbooks in the past and I saw A&T losing to schools like High Point or Guilford.......with those games being the final game of the season. Were smaller schools in the area (ie. Guilford, Greensboro, High Point) loaded with black players/mixed/or white players only? |
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 27, 2018 11:03:19 GMT -5
NSS, I have not had a chance to respond to your statement on this subject until now.
In 1964 a young man by the name of Henry Logan from Asheville, N C became the first black person to receive a basketball scholarship from an all white college in the Southeast. He played for Western Carolina in Cullowhee, N C. He was a 4 time All American and is considered by many as the "Jackie Robinson" of college basketball. His recruitment opened the gates for black kids to attend white colleges.
The subject at hand was who was the best basketball player or team in A&T history and I chose the 1967 team because of the caliber of competition they played against.
Yes, we lost to Guilford College who had
a big time player by the name of Bob Kauffman who played in the NBA for many years. He had a great supporting cast also.
High Point College had a former basketball coach for A&T by the name of Gene Littles who was an All American also who played in the NBA.
We also lost to teams such as Norfolk State who had players like Pee Wee Kirkland, Bobby Dandridge, Pop Pits and Hook Shot Grant. A&T and Norfolk State played against each other which is considered one of the greatest college games ever. A&T lost in 1967 - 134 - 132
in the game that consisted of 3 overtimes.
We also lost to Elizabeth City who had great players like Philly Dog who was a NBA All Star, Israel Oliver and Carmichael. (I had a senior moment and forgot Philly Dog's real name) I will inform you later when my mind refocus.
These examples that I gave you are a reflection of the caliber of college players this team faced.
Anything is possible so I don't know how this team would have fared against Houston, UCLA, Carolina or Kentucky.
This team to "me" is the best that I have observed since I have been watching Aggie basketball.
Coach Corbett had great teams also and I don't believe the team that almost beat Syracuse could beat this 1967 team. It would be close though.
I did not see Al Attles team when they were raising hell. It is a strong possibility that they were the best of all time.
Don't disrespect the losses to the teams that I mentioned because they were loaded also.
Oh, " Philly Dog's" real name is Mike Gayle or Gale. Whew!
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 27, 2018 11:06:39 GMT -5
Mistake. Gene Littles played in the ABA as did Henry Logan.
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