saabman
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Post by saabman on Mar 12, 2023 11:48:47 GMT -5
A&T administration does a good job of keeping information on potential hires out of the news. It's called no Transparency 😆 |
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Post by aggie2039 on Mar 12, 2023 11:53:58 GMT -5
A&T administration does a good job of keeping information on potential hires out of the news. It's called no Transparency 😆 Haha |
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Mar 12, 2023 12:07:53 GMT -5
jerry eaves had a nationally recognized celebrity "name", how did that workout for a&t? how many big time recruits did he sign? butch beard, former nba head coach and player, coached at both howard university and morgan state, how'd that workout at those schools? juan dixon, former nba player and march madness national championship at umd, coaches at coppin state, how's that working out? i mean, i could go on and on... Sent from my SM-G950U using proboards I don't want to spend a lot of time discussing a candidate the administrators may not be seriously considering and would like to move to discussing other candidates, but I don't see how listing former NBA players you feel failed as coaches mean that all NBA players fate will be the same. We know that is not the case. I do know that being a great player does not guarantee that you will make a good/great coach. I believe we agree on that statement. Although some may disagree with me on what I am calling a high bar, but based on A&T's last 5 seasons and not winning a conference championship or an at-large NCAA bid since 2013 (Cy Alexander) "my" goal or high bar for any new coach to achieve success is winning a conference championship or an at-large NCAA bid. 10 years is a long time for a basketball school, as some on this forum has claimed, to not achieve either goal. I believe A&T is now primarily a football school. Patrick Ewing has achieved my goal at his first stop as a HC, so who is to say he can't do it again at A&T. But again, he may not do well. Ewing does have a much greater name recognition than those you listed which "may" attract better or more recruits at the mid-major level. Beard, who you mentioned, achieved my goal in 1992 with Howard. Surprisingly, if Howard had not won the MEAC Championship today (Congratulations!!), he would have coached their last MEAC championship team. Jerry Eaves, who you also mentioned, did not meet my criteria during his tenure at A&T, but the team was so bad back then that A&T felt he did a good job as their coach. Taken from the below link. "Eaves took over a one-win program with just four returning players and two scholarship players and turned it into a team that consistently contends among the top teams in the MEAC." ncataggies.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/jerry-eaves/124Two famous saying come to mind: "One man's success is another man's failure" or vice-versa and "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Fortunately or unfortunately, I have no say on who is interviewed or hired. just face it, hiring pat ewing is an "awful" idea. i know jesse jackson is an aggie, but you're only "hoping" that ewing would be a good candidate despite the fact that nothing in his coaching history says he is. not every celebrity athlete can do what coach prime did. name recognition is horrible criteria for hiring a college head coach... Sent from my SM-G950U using proboards |
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Post by aggierattler on Mar 12, 2023 12:37:21 GMT -5
It's the failed coaches who shouldn't get a chance to learn on the job at A&T. If you failed at your last stop that had more resources, why should we think you would suddenly have success here with less resources. Why can't we just hire a coach who was successful at his last job?
Most coaches and athletic administrators say and feel that you didn't have a successful season if you didn't win a championship (regular season or tournament title in basketball) and play in the postseason NCAA or NIT tournament.
IF SO, aren't we to expect for our administration to only consider head coaches and assistant coaches from participating Division One March Madness programs and possibly current head coaches at programs in the Division II playoffs that are now going on??
Don't even field calls from any coach who is not on a staff that's in the hunt for a 2023 national championship?? They're obviously not successful in their current job.
Hopefully, this is what they are doing...because this seems to be what most of us expect and want. |
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 12, 2023 13:03:58 GMT -5
It's the failed coaches who shouldn't get a chance to learn on the job at A&T. If you failed at your last stop that had more resources, why should we think you would suddenly have success here with less resources. Why can't we just hire a coach who was successful at his last job? Then based on your criteria, Shaka Smart who just coached Marquette to the Big East Championship would not have been a candidate for the A&T HC position. He was fired at Texas and picked up at Marquette. The basketball competition is better in the Big 12 compared to the Big East. Texas also has more money and resources than Marquette. I get your point and you definitely have the right to set your own criteria, but there are many exceptions where fired coaches have done well at their next stop, especially if a coach moves down in strength of conference within D1 which Shaka Smart did. These coaches get recycled all the time and all that matters is whether another college wants to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance at coaching their team. Again, I have no issue if people think Ewing is a terrible choice for the HC position at A&T. I sometimes question the criteria used to eliminate Ewing as a candidate, because if it is consistently applied then you end up eliminating some good coaches as candidates. Now that is what leads to some good forum discussion like my criteria for hiring vs yours, someone else's, or A&T's criteria. |
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Post by aggie2039 on Mar 12, 2023 13:27:39 GMT -5
It's the failed coaches who shouldn't get a chance to learn on the job at A&T. If you failed at your last stop that had more resources, why should we think you would suddenly have success here with less resources. Why can't we just hire a coach who was successful at his last job? Then based on your criteria, Shaka Smart who just coached Marquette to the Big East Championship would not have been a candidate for the A&T HC position. He was fired at Texas and picked up at Marquette. The basketball competition is better in the Big 12 compared to the Big East. Texas also has more money and resources than Marquette. I get your point and you definitely have the right to set your own criteria, but there are many exceptions where fired coaches have done well at their next stop, especially if a coach moves down in strength of conference within D1 which Shaka Smart did. These coaches get recycled all the time and all that matters is whether another college wants to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance at coaching their team. Again, I have no issue if people think Ewing is a terrible choice for the HC position at A&T. I sometimes question the criteria used to eliminate Ewing as a candidate, because if it is consistently applied then you end up eliminating some good coaches as candidates. Now that is what leads to some good forum discussion like my criteria for hiring vs yours, someone else's, or A&T's criteria. Smart made it to the NCAA tournament 3/5 years and had an overall record of 109 - 86, 51-56 in Big12 play. Ewing was 75-109, 28-81 in big east play. 1 March madness appearance in 6 years. Bad example 😂😂 |
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 12, 2023 13:31:17 GMT -5
In six years as a head coach Ewing never had a winning record in conference, only one winning season (where he still had double-digit losses and didn’t hit 20 wins), had a .257 conference record and .408 overall record, and was coaching at GEORGETOWN.
What about him even merits discussion?
He’s the WORST name I have ever seen mentioned.
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Post by Aggie One on Mar 12, 2023 13:36:27 GMT -5
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 12, 2023 14:21:17 GMT -5
Then based on your criteria, Shaka Smart who just coached Marquette to the Big East Championship would not have been a candidate for the A&T HC position. He was fired at Texas and picked up at Marquette. The basketball competition is better in the Big 12 compared to the Big East. Texas also has more money and resources than Marquette. I get your point and you definitely have the right to set your own criteria, but there are many exceptions where fired coaches have done well at their next stop, especially if a coach moves down in strength of conference within D1 which Shaka Smart did. These coaches get recycled all the time and all that matters is whether another college wants to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance at coaching their team. Again, I have no issue if people think Ewing is a terrible choice for the HC position at A&T. I sometimes question the criteria used to eliminate Ewing as a candidate, because if it is consistently applied then you end up eliminating some good coaches as candidates. Now that is what leads to some good forum discussion like my criteria for hiring vs yours, someone else's, or A&T's criteria. Smart made it to the NCAA tournament 3/5 years and had an overall record of 109 - 86, 51-56 in Big12 play. Ewing was 75-109, 28-81 in big east play. 1 March madness appearance in 6 years. Bad example 😂😂 You are wrong. I gave an excellent example that met the criteria of "failed at your last stop". I intentionally chose his name because there would be no one on here that would argue that he should not be a candidate. Evidently, it worked. His criteria was flawed. These criteria stand alone and apply to all coaches for the job. Are you saying you agree with Bornthrilla's criteria on what coaches A&T should consider as candidates? We don't need to discuss Ewing's performance as a coach to answer that question. That is why in my previous post I stated peoples opinion on criteria is a good discussion not Ewing's performance. |
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saabman
Official BDF member
Posts: 10,682
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Post by saabman on Mar 12, 2023 14:29:10 GMT -5
It's the failed coaches who shouldn't get a chance to learn on the job at A&T. If you failed at your last stop that had more resources, why should we think you would suddenly have success here with less resources. Why can't we just hire a coach who was successful at his last job? Then based on your criteria, Shaka Smart who just coached Marquette to the Big East Championship would not have been a candidate for the A&T HC position. He was fired at Texas and picked up at Marquette. The basketball competition is better in the Big 12 compared to the Big East. Texas also has more money and resources than Marquette. I get your point and you definitely have the right to set your own criteria, but there are many exceptions where fired coaches have done well at their next stop, especially if a coach moves down in strength of conference within D1 which Shaka Smart did. These coaches get recycled all the time and all that matters is whether another college wants to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance at coaching their team. Again, I have no issue if people think Ewing is a terrible choice for the HC position at A&T. I sometimes question the criteria used to eliminate Ewing as a candidate, because if it is consistently applied then you end up eliminating some good coaches as candidates. Now that is what leads to some good forum discussion like my criteria for hiring vs yours, someone else's, or A&T's criteria. P5 level conferences in this conversation should not be used as a comparison. The Big 12 is no better in Basketball then the Big East, so it's not a step down in competition. Success in coaching is about recruiting development of players and basketball IQ regardless of your competition levels . Smart got the right individuals at Texas but he had the problem (as you do with 4 or 5 star players out of HS) no one wanted to the role players on this star packed team. You can't win without the role players . Also you throw in the deep pockets boosters and donors that wanted him to win a National Championship right away among other things, but that a totally different conversation 😆. Criteria wise for me it's the only be this 1. Have the individual proven that they can compete at this level a. Basketball knowledge b. Recruit and Develop Talent c. Communication skills, players, boosters & donors, media ,community and institutional staff . 2.Performance record a. Against in and Out Of Conference competition..HBCU & PWI programs b. Championships,Co-championship or wins in tournaments outside of the dance . c. If an assistant in a winning program what was your contribution and what did you learn from your previous head coaches that you can bring to our program moving it forward . d. Your projection on where we are now and where we will be with your leadership. Also don't get it twisted because a coach wins at one program it does not always transfer over to his next program . Due to the lack of transparency within this Administration . I truly doubt any of the names that we are proposing will not be our next head coach . But there will be somebody on here that says I knew that was the guy,that was going to be our HC coach. Watching 👀 closely to see who it is |
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 12, 2023 15:14:00 GMT -5
I don’t like how this is worded. Makes it sound like we’re just now starting to look. I’d prefer it said “A&T is targeting…”, even if we aren’t yet 😂. To me stating we’re already targeting a certain number or group of coaches makes us sound more competent and active n |
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DECKS
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Post by DECKS on Mar 12, 2023 15:40:00 GMT -5
As a low resource institution the deck is stacked against us. When you think about it there is no business model for us to follow. How many HBCU's have achieved sustained mid major relevancy in a PWI conference? In an HBCU conference? Odds are we can follow a sensible process in hiring the next coach and we're still likely to get it wrong.
Our most likely candidates are 1.Successful D2 coach 2. Mid major assistant who isn't in line for a higher profile opportunity. 3. Second chance candidates who flamed out in a previous opportunity. 4. Splash hire - someone with name recognition and big personality but no relevant head coaching experience. 5. Up and coming alum or former person with ties to A&T. 6. Previously successful coach who wants/needs another opportunity. Not done coaching....see Rick Pitino and Tubby Smith. 7. Successful lower major head coach who would make a lateral move for more $$.
Which path haven't we tried?
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 12, 2023 15:43:36 GMT -5
Then based on your criteria, Shaka Smart who just coached Marquette to the Big East Championship would not have been a candidate for the A&T HC position. He was fired at Texas and picked up at Marquette. The basketball competition is better in the Big 12 compared to the Big East. Texas also has more money and resources than Marquette. I get your point and you definitely have the right to set your own criteria, but there are many exceptions where fired coaches have done well at their next stop, especially if a coach moves down in strength of conference within D1 which Shaka Smart did. These coaches get recycled all the time and all that matters is whether another college wants to give them a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th chance at coaching their team. Again, I have no issue if people think Ewing is a terrible choice for the HC position at A&T. I sometimes question the criteria used to eliminate Ewing as a candidate, because if it is consistently applied then you end up eliminating some good coaches as candidates. Now that is what leads to some good forum discussion like my criteria for hiring vs yours, someone else's, or A&T's criteria. P5 level conferences in this conversation should not be used as a comparison. The Big 12 is no better in Basketball then the Big East, so it's not a step down in competition. Success in coaching is about recruiting development of players and basketball IQ regardless of your competition levels . Smart got the right individuals at Texas but he had the problem (as you do with 4 or 5 star players out of HS) no one wanted to the role players on this star packed team. You can't win without the role players . Also you throw in the deep pockets boosters and donors that wanted him to win a National Championship right away among other things, but that a totally different conversation 😆. Criteria wise for me it's the only be this 1. Have the individual proven that they can compete at this level a. Basketball knowledge b. Recruit and Develop Talent c. Communication skills, players, boosters & donors, media ,community and institutional staff . 2.Performance record a. Against in and Out Of Conference competition..HBCU & PWI programs b. Championships,Co-championship or wins in tournaments outside of the dance . c. If an assistant in a winning program what was your contribution and what did you learn from your previous head coaches that you can bring to our program moving it forward . d. Your projection on where we are now and where we will be with your leadership. Also don't get it twisted because a coach wins at one program it does not always transfer over to his next program . Due to the lack of transparency within this Administration . I truly doubt any of the names that we are proposing will not be our next head coach . But there will be somebody on here that says I knew that was the guy,that was going to be our HC coach. Watching 👀 closely to see who it is I agree with almost everything you said in your last post with the exception of no difference in P5 conference competition. The reason why certain conferences get more teams invited to postseason bowl games in football and more teams invited to March Madness is the strength of their conference from top to bottom. In basketball the Big East conference from top to bottom is not better than the Big 12. Now the top teams in both conferences can beat each other on any given day. |
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Mar 12, 2023 16:00:00 GMT -5
As a low resource institution the deck is stacked against us. When you think about it there is no business model for us to follow. How many HBCU's have achieved sustained mid major relevancy in a PWI conference? In an HBCU conference? Odds are we can follow a sensible process in hiring the next coach and we're still likely to get it wrong. Our most likely candidates are 1.Successful D2 coach 2. Mid major assistant who isn't in line for a higher profile opportunity. 3. Second chance candidates who flamed out in a previous opportunity. 4. Splash hire - someone with name recognition and big personality but no relevant head coaching experience. 5. Up and coming alum or former person with ties to A&T. 6. Previously successful coach who wants/needs another opportunity. Not done coaching....see Rick Pitino and Tubby Smith. 7. Successful lower major head coach who would make a lateral move for more $$. Which path haven't we tried? Our last three coaches were none of these paths, so the sky's the limit!! |
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 12, 2023 16:14:16 GMT -5
As a low resource institution the deck is stacked against us. When you think about it there is no business model for us to follow. How many HBCU's have achieved sustained mid major relevancy in a PWI conference? In an HBCU conference? Odds are we can follow a sensible process in hiring the next coach and we're still likely to get it wrong. Our most likely candidates are 1.Successful D2 coach 2. Mid major assistant who isn't in line for a higher profile opportunity. 3. Second chance candidates who flamed out in a previous opportunity. 4. Splash hire - someone with name recognition and big personality but no relevant head coaching experience. 5. Up and coming alum or former person with ties to A&T. 6. Previously successful coach who wants/needs another opportunity. Not done coaching....see Rick Pitino and Tubby Smith. 7. Successful lower major head coach who would make a lateral move for more $$. Which path haven't we tried? I really like this post. Additionally, with the success of the non-football schools dominating this conference in basketball, this is a huge hire for A&T. That is why I said we need to think out of the box if we want to win now or just continue as normal with a good choice for coach that can gradually build the program to a level to challenge for the CAA championship. |
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