saabman
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Post by saabman on Mar 3, 2023 12:17:58 GMT -5
That should have been done before the search..i.e getting players perspective on what characteristics they are looking for in a future coach..i.e communication and discipline , basketball knowledge and character. Then add those qualities and qualifications within the search . Asking a player/players about in coming potential coaches it's just trivial. Because for one they're only relating to stuff they have heard that may not be factual at all . Now if we are hiring in-house I could agree with your approach, because the players have a first hand experience and knowledge of the Coach . This is not in-house (hopefully it's not) so outside of the statement I made above there should be no input from the players at all on this new hiring . missing the point. you're placing too much emphasis on what the players think, that's not the approach i previously stated. i made it clear that the players input should not be the deciding factor. but an ad who "thoroughly" does his job covers all of the bases. the more you know, the better the decision you'll make. this ain't about what the players want, instead this is about being "informed" and covering all the bases. Sent from my SM-G950U using proboards You're contradicting yourself |
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Mar 3, 2023 13:14:22 GMT -5
missing the point. you're placing too much emphasis on what the players think, that's not the approach i previously stated. i made it clear that the players input should not be the deciding factor. but an ad who "thoroughly" does his job covers all of the bases. the more you know, the better the decision you'll make. this ain't about what the players want, instead this is about being "informed" and covering all the bases. Sent from my SM-G950U using proboards You're contradicting yourself how so? please elaborate, show me how. in no way am i contradicting myself. here's what i stated; please show me where i'm contradicting myself... |
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Post by boxout on Mar 3, 2023 13:43:49 GMT -5
I would hope that the admin and athletic director take a strong look at Larry Dixon, who is the head assistant coach At the University of South Florida. Dixon, is a native of NC but his scope for recruiting, is nation wide! This would be a big win, if the Aggies gave him an opportunity!
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Mar 3, 2023 14:27:27 GMT -5
South Florida is 14-16 this year, 8-22 last year. I don't want our next coach to come from a losing culture.
Native of North Carolina; nationwide recruiting - every other negro in NC fits that criteria.
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Post by outsidethinker on Mar 3, 2023 14:40:23 GMT -5
That should have been done before the search..i.e getting players perspective on what characteristics they are looking for in a future coach..i.e communication and discipline , basketball knowledge and character. Then add those qualities and qualifications within the search . Asking a player/players about in coming potential coaches it's just trivial. Because for one they're only relating to stuff they have heard that may not be factual at all . Now if we are hiring in-house I could agree with your approach, because the players have a first hand experience and knowledge of the Coach . This is not in-house (hopefully it's not) so outside of the statement I made above there should be no input from the players at all on this new hiring . missing the point. you're placing too much emphasis on what the players think, that's not the approach i previously stated. i made it clear that the players input should not be the deciding factor. but an ad who "thoroughly" does his job covers all of the bases. the more you know, the better the decision you'll make. this ain't about what the players want, instead this is about being "informed" and covering all the bases. Sent from my SM-G950U using proboards Sounds like something the AD should be doing annually for continuous improvement as oppose to only during the hiring process... |
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Mar 3, 2023 15:04:27 GMT -5
missing the point. you're placing too much emphasis on what the players think, that's not the approach i previously stated. i made it clear that the players input should not be the deciding factor. but an ad who "thoroughly" does his job covers all of the bases. the more you know, the better the decision you'll make. this ain't about what the players want, instead this is about being "informed" and covering all the bases. Sent from my SM-G950U using proboards Sounds like something the AD should be doing annually for continuous improvement as oppose to only during the hiring process... i wouldn't be opposed to that either. but today's athletes are different from the athletes of my era which is not unusual. that's why some folk on this message board have so much "heartache" over the players who wear different colored shoes. well, that's common among today's athletes and if you are not in touch with the trends and tendencies of today's athletes, you'd get the same reaction as some folk on bdv had relative to players who wear different colored shoes. if you're gonna hire a head coach for today's athletes, to me its a good idea to understand today's athletes because the trends and tendencies of an athlete "change" over time. i mean, just look at what kind of "uniforms" the kids wear nowadays as opposed to just 10 years ago? you don't see "baggy shorts" anymore, quite the contrary. so as an ad, it is your job to determine if the coach you hire is conducive to coach today's athletes. and you have no clue of knowing that if you never communicate with today's athletes. like i previously stated, in no way whatsoever am i saying that the players' input should be a lone deciding factor. but i think its important that as an ad that you "understand" what makes today's athletes tick. that doesn't mean the players should dictate who you hire. that just means that you are "better informed" to make a decision on who to hire. again, let me be as clear as possible. i am not suggesting a scenario where the "inmates run the asylum", sorta speak... |
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planoaggie
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 3, 2023 17:58:46 GMT -5
Oleschoolaggie, I don't feel that you have contradicted yourself, but myself and others still respectfully disagree with this particular comment made by you {however, i would "consider" their input}. Some, including myself, believe the players should not be included "at all" in the hiring search or decision process no matter what influence it has on the final decision. It does not make us right and you wrong. It is just my opinion vs your opinion. Martin, Hilton, and maybe a search firm are calling the shots.
I would like to expand on "my opinion" for not to involve players "at all" in the hiring of a coach or search process.
1. Only two exceptions to my opinion. First is if abuse or violations are going on in the program then an investigation may be necessary. This typically is done in the termination process and not the hiring process. Second is if we have a superstar player who I feel may leave if I don't include them in the decision process. To me this already says there is a lack of trust between the player and administrators.
2. Player's input to me is like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. It will be based on each player's feelings and experience with the current coaching staff and we already know coaches treat players differently. Secondly, this could be implemented at any point throughout the year to address issues/concerns within the program. If A&T were to do this on an annual basis because they felt it was important, then again you will already have players current input and there would be no need to make consulting athletes part of the "hiring process". It is already built-in. But to keep it even more simple, the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly and indirectly.
3. The hiring of a coach is "treated" primarily as a long term business decision, although we all know that is not always the case. These new NIL era players are just now getting a grasp on the business side of sports. Why would the Chancellor or AD, put "any" weight in what an inexperienced student-athlete has to say from a business perspective in the hiring of a new coach? Should they seek player's input on extension of a coach's contract? Where is the line you draw when it is ok not to seek player's input? Issues/concerns regarding the program yes, business no. Some of these players due to the transfer portal are only here at A&T for 1 to 2 years. I am not going down that rabbit hole when it is not necessary or required by anyone.
4. Lastly, but maybe the weakest reason, is that the institutional standard is not to involve the players in the hiring process of a coach. Just because other institutions or past A&T administrators followed this standard, does not mean the current administrators have to follow suit, but you should have a good explanation why not to.
Again, none of this says my opinions are right or better than others. I just respectfully disagree with atleast that particular portion of your opinion.
By the way, I totally agree with you regarding the uniform discussion. If the coach is ok with it, I am ok with it. New generation of players. I have gotten over it, although I prefer all players dressed alike.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Mar 4, 2023 4:01:13 GMT -5
Yall fingers had to cramp up.
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A&T-roy
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Post by A&T-roy on Mar 4, 2023 11:24:53 GMT -5
Oleschoolaggie, I don't feel that you have contradicted yourself, but myself and others still respectfully disagree with this particular comment made by you {however, i would "consider" their input}. Some, including myself, believe the players should not be included "at all" in the hiring search or decision process no matter what influence it has on the final decision. It does not make us right and you wrong. It is just my opinion vs your opinion. Martin, Hilton, and maybe a search firm are calling the shots. I would like to expand on "my opinion" for not to involve players "at all" in the hiring of a coach or search process. 1. Only two exceptions to my opinion. First is if abuse or violations are going on in the program then an investigation may be necessary. This typically is done in the termination process and not the hiring process. Second is if we have a superstar player who I feel may leave if I don't include them in the decision process. To me this already says there is a lack of trust between the player and administrators. 2. Player's input to me is like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. It will be based on each player's feelings and experience with the current coaching staff and we already know coaches treat players differently. Secondly, this could be implemented at any point throughout the year to address issues/concerns within the program. If A&T were to do this on an annual basis because they felt it was important, then again you will already have players current input and there would be no need to make consulting athletes part of the "hiring process". It is already built-in. But to keep it even more simple, the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly and indirectly. 3. The hiring of a coach is "treated" primarily as a long term business decision, although we all know that is not always the case. These new NIL era players are just now getting a grasp on the business side of sports. Why would the Chancellor or AD, put "any" weight in what an inexperienced student-athlete has to say from a business perspective in the hiring of a new coach? Should they seek player's input on extension of a coach's contract? Where is the line you draw when it is ok not to seek player's input? Issues/concerns regarding the program yes, business no. Some of these players due to the transfer portal are only here at A&T for 1 to 2 years. I am not going down that rabbit hole when it is not necessary or required by anyone. 4. Lastly, but maybe the weakest reason, is that the institutional standard is not to involve the players in the hiring process of a coach. Just because other institutions or past A&T administrators followed this standard, does not mean the current administrators have to follow suit, but you should have a good explanation why not to. Again, none of this says my opinions are right or better than others. I just respectfully disagree with atleast that particular portion of your opinion. By the way, I totally agree with you regarding the uniform discussion. If the coach is ok with it, I am ok with it. New generation of players. I have gotten over it, although I prefer all players dressed alike. How you know the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly? |
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planoaggie
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 4, 2023 20:04:12 GMT -5
Oleschoolaggie, I don't feel that you have contradicted yourself, but myself and others still respectfully disagree with this particular comment made by you {however, i would "consider" their input}. Some, including myself, believe the players should not be included "at all" in the hiring search or decision process no matter what influence it has on the final decision. It does not make us right and you wrong. It is just my opinion vs your opinion. Martin, Hilton, and maybe a search firm are calling the shots. I would like to expand on "my opinion" for not to involve players "at all" in the hiring of a coach or search process. 1. Only two exceptions to my opinion. First is if abuse or violations are going on in the program then an investigation may be necessary. This typically is done in the termination process and not the hiring process. Second is if we have a superstar player who I feel may leave if I don't include them in the decision process. To me this already says there is a lack of trust between the player and administrators. 2. Player's input to me is like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. It will be based on each player's feelings and experience with the current coaching staff and we already know coaches treat players differently. Secondly, this could be implemented at any point throughout the year to address issues/concerns within the program. If A&T were to do this on an annual basis because they felt it was important, then again you will already have players current input and there would be no need to make consulting athletes part of the "hiring process". It is already built-in. But to keep it even more simple, the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly and indirectly. 3. The hiring of a coach is "treated" primarily as a long term business decision, although we all know that is not always the case. These new NIL era players are just now getting a grasp on the business side of sports. Why would the Chancellor or AD, put "any" weight in what an inexperienced student-athlete has to say from a business perspective in the hiring of a new coach? Should they seek player's input on extension of a coach's contract? Where is the line you draw when it is ok not to seek player's input? Issues/concerns regarding the program yes, business no. Some of these players due to the transfer portal are only here at A&T for 1 to 2 years. I am not going down that rabbit hole when it is not necessary or required by anyone. 4. Lastly, but maybe the weakest reason, is that the institutional standard is not to involve the players in the hiring process of a coach. Just because other institutions or past A&T administrators followed this standard, does not mean the current administrators have to follow suit, but you should have a good explanation why not to. Again, none of this says my opinions are right or better than others. I just respectfully disagree with atleast that particular portion of your opinion. By the way, I totally agree with you regarding the uniform discussion. If the coach is ok with it, I am ok with it. New generation of players. I have gotten over it, although I prefer all players dressed alike. How you know the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly? I am referring to issues that typically come up like housing, meals, stipends, locker conditions, things not taken care of on road trips, bullying, do they like their coach or happy with the offense/defense system, etc. These type issues are addressed at the coach level, but if the coach can't handle it he "should" pass this along to admin, unless he is the problem which the player "should" then contact admin. Sometimes admin find out these things by monitoring players social media accounts. These are some examples of direct and indirectly communications. Like I said, these type of issues albeit extremely important (we must take care and protect the players) are like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. We all "assume" that someone is reading or listening to these issues/complaints/compliments whether they act upon them or not. Therefore, I use this in analogous to A&T administrators behavior. They are listening, watching, and reading what is happening with the MBB program. There are better means to address these types of "important" player issues/concerns then to integrate them in the hiring of a coach process in my opinion. |
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Mar 4, 2023 23:36:19 GMT -5
How you know the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly? I am referring to issues that typically come up like housing, meals, stipends, locker conditions, things not taken care of on road trips, bullying, do they like their coach or happy with the offense/defense system, etc. These type issues are addressed at the coach level, but if the coach can't handle it he "should" pass this along to admin, unless he is the problem which the player "should" then contact admin. Sometimes admin find out these things by monitoring players social media accounts. These are some examples of direct and indirectly communications. Like I said, these type of issues albeit extremely important (we must take care and protect the players) are like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. We all "assume" that someone is reading or listening to these issues/complaints/compliments whether they act upon them or not. Therefore, I use this in analogous to A&T administrators behavior. They are listening, watching, and reading what is happening with the MBB program. There are better means to address these types of "important" player issues/concerns then to integrate them in the hiring of a coach process in my opinion. Stop this . Yes there should be a survey or in person question and answer session not about a Particular coach but What a or any coach should bring to the table in reference to Communication skills, Team philosophy , Basketball knowledge and his ability to lead and develop them. All of those things should be on the interview list to be asked in the interview process. Outside of that input from the players ,that's where it ends for them. There is a reason why most incoming HC's bring there own hand picked staff and in some cases players (if they are transferring out of their Old program) . As in the business sector. You get input from the employees as to what they look for in the individual that would or should lead their Department and incorporate this in the interview process that's where the employees input ends . After the hiring is completed is when you address the employees concerns..i.e housing ,facility interstructure,Meals and so on . With the HC as your point man to the AD and the Chancellor or who ever handles those areas of concern. I feel that a lot are confusing the steps in the interview questioning process. And who and how it actually works . |
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A&T-roy
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Post by A&T-roy on Mar 5, 2023 13:57:35 GMT -5
How you know the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly? I am referring to issues that typically come up like housing, meals, stipends, locker conditions, things not taken care of on road trips, bullying, do they like their coach or happy with the offense/defense system, etc. These type issues are addressed at the coach level, but if the coach can't handle it he "should" pass this along to admin, unless he is the problem which the player "should" then contact admin. Sometimes admin find out these things by monitoring players social media accounts. These are some examples of direct and indirectly communications. Like I said, these type of issues albeit extremely important (we must take care and protect the players) are like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. We all "assume" that someone is reading or listening to these issues/complaints/compliments whether they act upon them or not. Therefore, I use this in analogous to A&T administrators behavior. They are listening, watching, and reading what is happening with the MBB program. There are better means to address these types of "important" player issues/concerns then to integrate them in the hiring of a coach process in my opinion. I still don't know how you KNOW they know. |
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planoaggie
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Post by planoaggie on Mar 5, 2023 15:50:56 GMT -5
I am referring to issues that typically come up like housing, meals, stipends, locker conditions, things not taken care of on road trips, bullying, do they like their coach or happy with the offense/defense system, etc. These type issues are addressed at the coach level, but if the coach can't handle it he "should" pass this along to admin, unless he is the problem which the player "should" then contact admin. Sometimes admin find out these things by monitoring players social media accounts. These are some examples of direct and indirectly communications. Like I said, these type of issues albeit extremely important (we must take care and protect the players) are like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. We all "assume" that someone is reading or listening to these issues/complaints/compliments whether they act upon them or not. Therefore, I use this in analogous to A&T administrators behavior. They are listening, watching, and reading what is happening with the MBB program. There are better means to address these types of "important" player issues/concerns then to integrate them in the hiring of a coach process in my opinion. I still don't know how you KNOW they know. See the quotation marks around "assume" in my response to you. In my opinion, "Great/Good" schools will have administrators that care about the well-being of their students and student-athletes more so than other schools, therefore, it is not a stretch for me and others to "assume" A&T's administrators would have already known about certain things/issues and would not need to conduct a player's meeting to find these things out. Not "all" things/issues, but "certain" things/issues. Now if you want to question my statement or disagree with it, I am fine with it. It is just my assumption, which could be wrong. It also is such a miniscule part and not the main focus of what I wanted to communicate in my posted book report 😀. Way too long as someone said!!! Quote taken from original post: But to keep it even more simple, the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly and indirectly. |
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A&T-roy
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Post by A&T-roy on Mar 5, 2023 21:13:59 GMT -5
I still don't know how you KNOW they know. See the quotation marks around "assume" in my response to you. In my opinion, "Great/Good" schools will have administrators that care about the well-being of their students and student-athletes more so than other schools, therefore, it is not a stretch for me and others to "assume" A&T's administrators would have already known about certain things/issues and would not need to conduct a player's meeting to find these things out. Not "all" things/issues, but "certain" things/issues. Now if you want to question my statement or disagree with it, I am fine with it. It is just my assumption, which could be wrong. It also is such a miniscule part and not the main focus of what I wanted to communicate in my posted book report 😀. Way too long as someone said!!! Quote taken from original post: But to keep it even more simple, the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly and indirectly. Your 1st statement was as if you know, not assume. Assume/Assumption is different from knowing. |
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Mar 6, 2023 15:13:56 GMT -5
Oleschoolaggie, I don't feel that you have contradicted yourself, but myself and others still respectfully disagree with this particular comment made by you {however, i would "consider" their input}. Some, including myself, believe the players should not be included "at all" in the hiring search or decision process no matter what influence it has on the final decision. It does not make us right and you wrong. It is just my opinion vs your opinion. Martin, Hilton, and maybe a search firm are calling the shots. I would like to expand on "my opinion" for not to involve players "at all" in the hiring of a coach or search process. 1. Only two exceptions to my opinion. First is if abuse or violations are going on in the program then an investigation may be necessary. This typically is done in the termination process and not the hiring process. Second is if we have a superstar player who I feel may leave if I don't include them in the decision process. To me this already says there is a lack of trust between the player and administrators. 2. Player's input to me is like filling out a customer experience survey or employee suggestion box. It will be based on each player's feelings and experience with the current coaching staff and we already know coaches treat players differently. Secondly, this could be implemented at any point throughout the year to address issues/concerns within the program. If A&T were to do this on an annual basis because they felt it was important, then again you will already have players current input and there would be no need to make consulting athletes part of the "hiring process". It is already built-in. But to keep it even more simple, the administration already knows how the kids feel about certain things/issues directly and indirectly. 3. The hiring of a coach is "treated" primarily as a long term business decision, although we all know that is not always the case. These new NIL era players are just now getting a grasp on the business side of sports. Why would the Chancellor or AD, put "any" weight in what an inexperienced student-athlete has to say from a business perspective in the hiring of a new coach? Should they seek player's input on extension of a coach's contract? Where is the line you draw when it is ok not to seek player's input? Issues/concerns regarding the program yes, business no. Some of these players due to the transfer portal are only here at A&T for 1 to 2 years. I am not going down that rabbit hole when it is not necessary or required by anyone. 4. Lastly, but maybe the weakest reason, is that the institutional standard is not to involve the players in the hiring process of a coach. Just because other institutions or past A&T administrators followed this standard, does not mean the current administrators have to follow suit, but you should have a good explanation why not to. Again, none of this says my opinions are right or better than others. I just respectfully disagree with atleast that particular portion of your opinion. By the way, I totally agree with you regarding the uniform discussion. If the coach is ok with it, I am ok with it. New generation of players. I have gotten over it, although I prefer all players dressed alike. honestly, i didn't read everything you typed, i'm a lazy reader and ran out of patience. nonetheless, "considering" the players input is a way of "understanding" today's athletes and their trends/tendencies. you are hiring a coach to lead today's athletes. so if you yourself never communicate with today's student athletes, then you will not be in the best position possible to hire the right coach. i don't see how that is even disputable. you choose to "ignore" the very people who you are tasked to hire someone to be their mentor, that's irresponsible in my opinion. that's not covering all the bases. that's like someone else picking your lawyer, realtor, or accountant for you without considering your own thoughts... |
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