Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Dec 12, 2022 22:43:44 GMT -5
Maryland had two cases: one based on underfunding, the other based on duplication of programs. They did not sufficiently prove underfunding case, but was able to settle the duplication of programs case with the state of Maryland.
FAMU is trying to build a case based on underfunding.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 12, 2022 22:50:39 GMT -5
Seems like they found a smoking gun with the duplication of programs argument. I am not sure we would be that fortunate.
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Post by aggie2039 on Dec 12, 2022 22:54:26 GMT -5
Seems like they found a smoking gun with the duplication of programs argument. I am not sure we would be that fortunate. It may backfire on us…we may be duplicating some of the same programs UNCG has. Especially the MBA program and our planned PhD programs.
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Dec 13, 2022 0:56:08 GMT -5
Seems like they found a smoking gun with the duplication of programs argument. I am not sure we would be that fortunate. It may backfire on us…we may be duplicating some of the same programs UNCG has. Especially the MBA program and our planned PhD programs. All Institutions duplicate each other to a degree ( same course but different name..i.e business structure/ business ethics) with a slight variation in presentation and structure . But the catch for me is why didn't the HBCU's in the state have the funding to initiate those programs .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 7:15:10 GMT -5
Let's remember... Alumni Chapters are direct extensions of the Office of Alumni Relations since the dissolution of the Alumni Association (incorporated). How does this affect our efforts to sue NC for $2.8 billion? Alumni would have to organize themselves outside of the purview of the University, which includes the Alumni Chapters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 7:47:35 GMT -5
Maryland had two cases: one based on underfunding, the other based on duplication of programs. They did not sufficiently prove underfunding case, but was able to settle the duplication of programs case with the state of Maryland. FAMU is trying to build a case based on underfunding. What justifications are out there for the UNC System and the State to not equally match Federal Land Grant funding for A&T and NC State? Historically, this hasn't been the case. According to this study, which goes back to 2010-2012, A&T only received 73%-75% of its matching funding and had to apply for a federal waiver to receive the rest. Basically, we need to sue for back matching funding when we didn't receive a waiver and prove in a Federal Court that NC historically withheld matching land grant funding from A&T. We could swing it for probably $10 million yearly, or more until the back pay is fulfilled.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Dec 13, 2022 9:43:54 GMT -5
Seems like they found a smoking gun with the duplication of programs argument. I am not sure we would be that fortunate. I think we have a much better case... just a few miles down Market Street. You can't tell me that UNCG didn't syphon off programs and resources from programs that were already being offered at A&T. Just the fact that the state is now starting to combine A&T and UNCG programs and facilities, is a clear indication there were duplications. And you can bet these duplications were better funded on West Market Street! And look around at the programs that are being offered... Except for the Law School at NCCU, who's got all the medical schools and veterinarian schools?
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 13, 2022 9:47:48 GMT -5
I think there was someone here who mentioned how the state prevented us from having of a Vet school some years ago.
That situation might actually be the smoking gun we are looking for.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 13, 2022 9:50:54 GMT -5
How does this affect our efforts to sue NC for $2.8 billion? Alumni would have to organize themselves outside of the purview of the University, which includes the Alumni Chapters. Gotcha. Well BDV might actually present the most organized alumni structure you'll find outside of an official chapter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2022 10:33:53 GMT -5
Seems like they found a smoking gun with the duplication of programs argument. I am not sure we would be that fortunate. I think we have a much better case... just a few miles down Market Street. You can't tell me that UNCG didn't syphon off programs and resources from programs that were already being offered at A&T. Just the fact that the state is now starting to combine A&T and UNCG programs and facilities, is a clear indication there were duplications. And you can bet these duplications were better funded on West Market Street! And look around at the programs that are being offered... Except for the Law School at NCCU, who's got all the medical schools and veterinarian schools? I think the duplication of programs should be taken up by all UNC HBCUS against the UNC system. However, the land grant funding is exclusively ours. And to Bornthrilla’s comment, it could be wise to explore the decision behind NC State landing the Vet school. But, I’m not a lawyer. We need a NC Education Law expert to dive in and help make a true determination regarding the state’s inability to match funding for the Aggies while matching it for the Wolfpack.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Dec 13, 2022 13:41:24 GMT -5
I think there was someone here who mentioned how the state prevented us from having of a Vet school some years ago. That situation might actually be the smoking gun we are looking for. I was around during the "Vet School 3 Card Monte Scam!" There was pressure from the NC State Legislature to open another Veterinarian program at one of the other state supported Universities. To create the "illusion" that the awarding of this new Veterinarian program was going to be "fair" several schools were notified they would be considered. A&T, NC State and East Carolina are the only two schools that I remember being named as potential sites. A&T brought in a team of Veterinarians and consultants to make sure we had everything in place from the staffing and facilities to be awarded the program. In fact, a very experienced Black Veterinarian and close family friend of mine was on A&T's preparation team. As we were busy getting prepared, we failed to watch the state shuffling the 3 cards. In the end, the state awarded the veterinarian program to NC State, and we got the "Lab Animal Science" program. I guess they figured that East Carolina would be happy with their medical program. My friend that was on our preparation team said we were "as prepared if not better than NC State to receive the program, but there was no way we were going to get that program over NC State! Eastern North Carolina politicians had more power. Screwed again!
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Post by Bornthrilla on Dec 13, 2022 13:53:21 GMT -5
So maybe we can compare how much funding Webb Hall received over the years versus the funding provided to the Veterinarian Program at NCSU. Then we can sue for the difference.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Dec 13, 2022 14:08:21 GMT -5
Not just that, how did the school not being here impact the growth and missed opportunities for both enrollment AND research? Could we have been an R1 institution years ago with a school of veterinary medicine. How much grant money from outside sources have we missed out on? How many Black students that could have been doctors went into an ancillary field instead?
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 13, 2022 14:42:31 GMT -5
Honestly, I have no idea what legal theories to use. I do know that if the article stated we were shorted billions of dollars I want to see us pursue and receive every last cent. I'm also willing to wait patiently because I would expect to get interest on that dollar amount, and I would expect a cost-of-living adjustment on that dollar amount. 2.8 billion back then is well over 3 billion now.
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@ProfBellamy
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Post by @ProfBellamy on Dec 13, 2022 14:52:41 GMT -5
Let's remember... Alumni Chapters are direct extensions of the Office of Alumni Relations since the dissolution of the Alumni Association (incorporated). How does this affect our efforts to sue NC for $2.8 billion? Any real effort to do a legal action wouldn't come from the alumni chapters even more now than before. It would come from a non-affiliated entity like the old North Carolina Alumni and Friends Coalition. If a corporation for an alumni association is re-established, there are very specific guidelines in the UNC System policy for affiliated entities and at any moment, the institution can yank its affiliation and trigger the dissolution of the legal entity.
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