tony
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Posts: 153
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Post by tony on Aug 2, 2021 13:23:55 GMT -5
I dropped by a high school band camp today. Horns sounded a mess. No judgement on the school - it's the first day of camp. But the dance girls were nice - together, knew the routine, movements crisp. What's the difference? The dance instructor has a dance school, and has been working with most of those girls in some capacity for years - some since they were 5, 10 years old. They're NOT beginners, they've been doing it and loving it from childhood. Their instructor takes pride in what she does - it showed before they got to high school, it shows now, and it'll show when they get to college. When they graduate they're going to be in a college tryout with 50 other girls, none of whom are getting paid a dime, and hoping to make the squad. Meanwhile, remember that middle school band I complained about a few weeks ago? The one that's a feeder for this same high school? I got a hold of the sheet music for one of the songs I mentioned earlier. Here are a few snippets: For those that don't know what they're looking at, this is literally unplayable. The notes are outside the range of what the instrument can do. They're handing this out to 11 year olds. What probably happened is whoever wrote it made it for flute - that's the only usable one - and used a computer to change the parts for the other instruments. Computers aren't smart enough to figure out the notes are too low. That's where a person (is supposed to) come in. It takes about 2 minutes to fix. That hasn't happened over the at least 3 years this has been handed out. Never mind most kids can't even read those notes... the teacher is probably telling them the letters to write in pencil over the notes. Stuff like this is the definition of malpractice. If the 6th graders knew what a good high school player knows, they wouldn't want to spend 3 days in that band, let alone 3 years. Good luck keeping them in high school, let alone college. On another note, I was at a baseball practice and ran into a parent who said he played sax, and went to Central back in the day. I asked him if he was in the band there - he said no. Why not? Because he liked band in high school, but not enough to put in the time it takes in college. He said he might have done it if they were paying him. So back to the money thing - we're turning out all these local students who like band, but just barely, so even if you get them in school, you have them to pay them be in band. We're turning out tons of dancers who are beating the door down without a thought to money. And all we can think about is fund raising. Never mind our local schools are turning out unmotivated, barely trained musicians. How can we look at the other side of the issue, and better utilize our school of music education to give us more to work with?
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Maxell
Official BDF member
Director of BDF Marketing
Posts: 12,398
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Post by Maxell on Aug 2, 2021 13:37:17 GMT -5
That trumpet part is laughable!
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Post by marchingband1969 on Aug 2, 2021 17:59:32 GMT -5
I believe there are talented high school musicians out here. Not as many as in past years, but they are out here. The problem is they are scattered throughout the US not just in our local high schools down the block. So it's going to take two things to get them to perform in the BGMM...a talented recruiter and scholarship money. Talented high school band students, like talented athletes must be actively recruiting. We should have someone on the BGMM Band staff that has the travel budget and time to visit key high schools throughout the Southeast and northeast. Recruiting should be this individual's primary job responsibilities...finding and getting talented band students to join the BGMM.
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Post by captaggie on Aug 2, 2021 23:39:34 GMT -5
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tony
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Posts: 153
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Post by tony on Aug 3, 2021 13:09:49 GMT -5
I believe there are talented high school musicians out here. Not as many as in past years, but they are out here. And that right there is the problem I'm talking about. The Band Blowout is an essential recruiting tool, but it's next to useless for developing musicians. We HAVE GOT TO MOVE PAST ONE DIMENSIONAL THINKING!!!!!! Every problem is not the same. Every solution is not the same. Band Blowout gives otherwise undecided high school musicians another reason to choose us over WSSU, NCCU, or FSU. It does NOT make them much better, or make more of them. It does not bring back any that quit in 9th grade because middle school band sucked. A scholarship does NOT keep our staff from having to get kids to read music when their middle school and high school directors neglected to. It does not keep us from spending band camp working on proper breathing and tone while other bands are learning books of music. Coming up with a solution to the problem of poor local bands is a lot harder than asking alumni to give, but I think it's just as valuable. It's always easier to recruit locally, and bands with bigger, more talented local feeder schools will always have an advantage over us, scholarships or no. Could some of our student leaders - music majors or not - volunteer with local schools? Could we build more relationships with local band directors? How well do we support our alumni that are responsible for their own schools now?
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Post by captaggie on Aug 3, 2021 13:30:41 GMT -5
Appears you're a SME, we await your solution Tony.
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Maxell
Official BDF member
Director of BDF Marketing
Posts: 12,398
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Post by Maxell on Aug 3, 2021 13:59:11 GMT -5
How about "Adopt-a-School(s)"? Pick one or two local elementary or middle schools to partner with long term on all things BAND. Music, mentorship, tutoring, lessons, and assisting at concerts/parades, free tickets to A&T games, etc.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Aug 3, 2021 18:38:17 GMT -5
I believe there are talented high school musicians out here. Not as many as in past years, but they are out here. And that right there is the problem I'm talking about. The Band Blowout is an essential recruiting tool, but it's next to useless for developing musicians. We HAVE GOT TO MOVE PAST ONE DIMENSIONAL THINKING!!!!!! Every problem is not the same. Every solution is not the same. Band Blowout gives otherwise undecided high school musicians another reason to choose us over WSSU, NCCU, or FSU. It does NOT make them much better, or make more of them. It does not bring back any that quit in 9th grade because middle school band sucked. A scholarship does NOT keep our staff from having to get kids to read music when their middle school and high school directors neglected to. It does not keep us from spending band camp working on proper breathing and tone while other bands are learning books of music. Coming up with a solution to the problem of poor local bands is a lot harder than asking alumni to give, but I think it's just as valuable. It's always easier to recruit locally, and bands with bigger, more talented local feeder schools will always have an advantage over us, scholarships or no. Could some of our student leaders - music majors or not - volunteer with local schools? Could we build more relationships with local band directors? How well do we support our alumni that are responsible for their own schools now? I never mentioned nor implied that the BGMM Band Blowout was the answer to our talent problem. We appear to have a different of opinion on how to get talented musicians in the BGMM. You want to grow our talent from the grown up. I want to search the high school band rooms on the east coast and recruit talented band students. I'm 74 years old and very impatient that's why I want to find the talent now. Both approaches will work if you have enough resources. Unfortunately currently the BGMM is doing neither approach.
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tony
Full Member
Posts: 153
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Post by tony on Aug 4, 2021 9:19:07 GMT -5
And that right there is the problem I'm talking about. The Band Blowout is an essential recruiting tool, but it's next to useless for developing musicians. We HAVE GOT TO MOVE PAST ONE DIMENSIONAL THINKING!!!!!! Every problem is not the same. Every solution is not the same. Band Blowout gives otherwise undecided high school musicians another reason to choose us over WSSU, NCCU, or FSU. It does NOT make them much better, or make more of them. It does not bring back any that quit in 9th grade because middle school band sucked. A scholarship does NOT keep our staff from having to get kids to read music when their middle school and high school directors neglected to. It does not keep us from spending band camp working on proper breathing and tone while other bands are learning books of music. Coming up with a solution to the problem of poor local bands is a lot harder than asking alumni to give, but I think it's just as valuable. It's always easier to recruit locally, and bands with bigger, more talented local feeder schools will always have an advantage over us, scholarships or no. Could some of our student leaders - music majors or not - volunteer with local schools? Could we build more relationships with local band directors? How well do we support our alumni that are responsible for their own schools now? I never mentioned nor implied that the BGMM Band Blowout was the answer to our talent problem. We appear to have a different of opinion on how to get talented musicians in the BGMM. You want to grow our talent from the grown up. I want to search the high school band rooms on the east coast and recruit talented band students. I'm 74 years old and very impatient that's why I want to find the talent now. Both approaches will work if you have enough resources. Unfortunately currently the BGMM is doing neither approach. No, captaggie mentioned the blowout. I call that good recruiting, but not developing talent. Also, I fully support your efforts to raise scholarship funds. The thing is, we ARE actively recruiting. We'd probably be Central's size, or smaller if we didn't. Stopping, or pulling back there is the last thing we should do. It's just that like you, I'm impatient. We've been doing fairly hard fund raising - Elite 100, endowments, alumni letters, fund raising campaigns, begging administration - for at least the past 20 years, and it's gotten us to where we are today. Any way you look at it, we're better off than when we started. And I'm always down for ideas for better fund raising. It's just that we need additional (not replacement) approaches to keep growing the band. One thing we can all do - raise expectations. Nobody excused it, or blamed social media, video games, or the changing times when our football team went 0-27. Lets lose the idea that kids just aren't into band, or they're just kids - that's the best they can do. Kids aren't interested anything that gives them a bad experience, and that's 100% on the leadership. Those football teams weren't made of bad athletes - Small won the Meac his 1st year. He and Fobbs just had no idea what to do with them. The same thing is happening across a lot of our schools. Maxell's adopt a school is an excellent idea. Maybe pick a couple of middle schools - Lincoln, Allen, or Jackson maybe, and plan to always have one of the music ed majors as a part time assistant. A lot of middle schools used to have assistants, and cut back due to funding. Our students need to student teach, the directors are overworked - win win. Are we still sending arrangements out to high schools? I remember when every high school in the state had some of A&T's arrangements. Nothing like hearing a band three times your size and ten times your talent blowing one of your best songs. Maybe have the pep band perform at some of the local elementary schools, and let them know that band is an option. It's nearly invisible to the average 5th grader. That's a whole other topic. I know of a middle school band director that was turning kids away during summer registration because the 20 member band class was "full". I don't want to get anybody fired, but...
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Post by marchingband1969 on Aug 4, 2021 18:00:12 GMT -5
I never mentioned nor implied that the BGMM Band Blowout was the answer to our talent problem. We appear to have a different of opinion on how to get talented musicians in the BGMM. You want to grow our talent from the grown up. I want to search the high school band rooms on the east coast and recruit talented band students. I'm 74 years old and very impatient that's why I want to find the talent now. Both approaches will work if you have enough resources. Unfortunately currently the BGMM is doing neither approach. No, captaggie mentioned the blowout. I call that good recruiting, but not developing talent. Also, I fully support your efforts to raise scholarship funds. The thing is, we ARE actively recruiting. We'd probably be Central's size, or smaller if we didn't. Stopping, or pulling back there is the last thing we should do. It's just that like you, I'm impatient. We've been doing fairly hard fund raising - Elite 100, endowments, alumni letters, fund raising campaigns, begging administration - for at least the past 20 years, and it's gotten us to where we are today. Any way you look at it, we're better off than when we started. And I'm always down for ideas for better fund raising. It's just that we need additional (not replacement) approaches to keep growing the band. One thing we can all do - raise expectations. Nobody excused it, or blamed social media, video games, or the changing times when our football team went 0-27. Lets lose the idea that kids just aren't into band, or they're just kids - that's the best they can do. Kids aren't interested anything that gives them a bad experience, and that's 100% on the leadership. Those football teams weren't made of bad athletes - Small won the Meac his 1st year. He and Fobbs just had no idea what to do with them. The same thing is happening across a lot of our schools. Maxell's adopt a school is an excellent idea. Maybe pick a couple of middle schools - Lincoln, Allen, or Jackson maybe, and plan to always have one of the music ed majors as a part time assistant. A lot of middle schools used to have assistants, and cut back due to funding. Our students need to student teach, the directors are overworked - win win. Are we still sending arrangements out to high schools? I remember when every high school in the state had some of A&T's arrangements. Nothing like hearing a band three times your size and ten times your talent blowing one of your best songs. Maybe have the pep band perform at some of the local elementary schools, and let them know that band is an option. It's nearly invisible to the average 5th grader. That's a whole other topic. I know of a middle school band director that was turning kids away during summer registration because the 20 member band class was "full". I don't want to get anybody fired, but... What we are doing now is "limited" recruiting. Serious recruiting starts with having a full-time recruiter that job and pay is based on his or her ability to find and recruit talented qualified band students. Having someone on staff that has part-time recruiting duties that periodically contacts a few high schools and hopes a talented musicians will come our way isn't serious enough. We're approaching recruiting talented band students today like we did decades ago. If we are serious about increasing our numbers and quality we need to change our recruiting model.
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tony
Full Member
Posts: 153
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Post by tony on Aug 7, 2021 21:59:48 GMT -5
No, captaggie mentioned the blowout. I call that good recruiting, but not developing talent. Also, I fully support your efforts to raise scholarship funds. The thing is, we ARE actively recruiting. We'd probably be Central's size, or smaller if we didn't. Stopping, or pulling back there is the last thing we should do. It's just that like you, I'm impatient. We've been doing fairly hard fund raising - Elite 100, endowments, alumni letters, fund raising campaigns, begging administration - for at least the past 20 years, and it's gotten us to where we are today. Any way you look at it, we're better off than when we started. And I'm always down for ideas for better fund raising. It's just that we need additional (not replacement) approaches to keep growing the band. One thing we can all do - raise expectations. Nobody excused it, or blamed social media, video games, or the changing times when our football team went 0-27. Lets lose the idea that kids just aren't into band, or they're just kids - that's the best they can do. Kids aren't interested anything that gives them a bad experience, and that's 100% on the leadership. Those football teams weren't made of bad athletes - Small won the Meac his 1st year. He and Fobbs just had no idea what to do with them. The same thing is happening across a lot of our schools. Maxell's adopt a school is an excellent idea. Maybe pick a couple of middle schools - Lincoln, Allen, or Jackson maybe, and plan to always have one of the music ed majors as a part time assistant. A lot of middle schools used to have assistants, and cut back due to funding. Our students need to student teach, the directors are overworked - win win. Are we still sending arrangements out to high schools? I remember when every high school in the state had some of A&T's arrangements. Nothing like hearing a band three times your size and ten times your talent blowing one of your best songs. Maybe have the pep band perform at some of the local elementary schools, and let them know that band is an option. It's nearly invisible to the average 5th grader. That's a whole other topic. I know of a middle school band director that was turning kids away during summer registration because the 20 member band class was "full". I don't want to get anybody fired, but... What we are doing now is "limited" recruiting. Serious recruiting starts with having a full-time recruiter that job and pay is based on his or her ability to find and recruit talented qualified band students. Having someone on staff that has part-time recruiting duties that periodically contacts a few high schools and hopes a talented musicians will come our way isn't serious enough. We're approaching recruiting talented band students today like we did decades ago. If we are serious about increasing our numbers and quality we need to change our recruiting model. Gotta disagree there. Years ago a staff member would call up band directors, make trips to schools, maybe show a tape or two, and hand out some sign up sheets. A good high school might see reps from 3 or 4 different schools. You'd see ONE video tape of a band, maybe get your hands on a few recordings if you're lucky. Other than that, it was just word of mouth and what you got to see in person. Band competitions were vital then - they doubled as recruiting trips, and high school bands were invited to college games and parades. They're still doing all of that, but they've added professionally produced videos, a youtube feed, member interviews, promotional videos, movies... Our band's marketing and recruiting is light years ahead of anything that was done when we were active. I really feel like we've hit a wall though - our approach is only going to do so much. That doesn't mean it's wrong, or we should back off - on the contrary we're consistently bigger and mostly better than we've been in the past because of what we're doing now. But as alumni, we always want more. And rightfully so - we're still not doing all we can. But you can't say our name isn't out there - you can't say that high school kids don't know who we are or what we're about. It's just that we're only going to get a certain percent of them to choose us based on what we're offering. If we want to get more, we either offer something more (scholarships) so we get a bigger portion of a small pool, or grow the pool (better local schools) so that same percent gives us more members. We've been paying a lot of attention to the scholarship angle, it hasn't done what we want. Isn't it time to look at more approaches?
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