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Post by DOOMS on Jul 9, 2021 7:54:42 GMT -5
Admittedly I don't even know the difference between a "large" and a "small" band. Other than figuring the largest hbcu should have at least a fairly large band (without even knowing what size that actually is lol) I'll have to step back due to my complete ignorance on the point. You and I both, I do believe in providing them more funding however full out of state tuition scholarship is a lot to ask. If there's a way to designate anybody out-of-state who commits to marching in-state for tuition purposes I'm all for that. Beyond that...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2021 8:36:54 GMT -5
Question: If we had a dedicated state of the art band room/practice area attached to a new stadium along with either a partial scholarship or a switch to in-state tuition, do you think you’d have marched? For a short answer: yes.
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919aggie
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Post by 919aggie on Jul 9, 2021 8:50:40 GMT -5
Why do we need a big band? No one on the east coast has a large band and we know the big south schools don’t have one either. Please explain the logic of having a large band and no one to battle against🤷🏾♂️ I personally am obsessed with having the best everything. I don't use the Big South or MEAC as measuring sticks when it comes to bands or facilities. Who would honestly want a band the size of Centrals? Imagine if the roles were reversed Small college bands give off broke / high school vibes. Not sure how much you're into band, but every Honda BOTB the band seems to add 40+ members just for the competition. As long as we are competing at HBCU band events, we need a nice sized band. Famu, Bethune, and even Tennessee State hardly traveled, yet they all still have 250+ members. PWIs have 300+ with no one to battle...Talladega has 300+ with no football games. We have been sitting around 220 for the last couple of years, but around 250 is a good number.
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popdad
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Post by popdad on Jul 9, 2021 9:11:57 GMT -5
Having a fund set to directly assist band members in a way as to not have financial struggles while they’re here (that is if it doesn’t exist already) knowing that someone has they’re back could be helpful. As far as band size, to me there is no issue... we’ve always been able to put a great sound, great show, and perform with the ability to hold our own and outshine whoever shows up against us. There is probably more people across NC and around the world hoping to get a chance to see us, because of the way that we promote our product through social media. BGMM would definitely benefit from all donations and surely welcome a sustainable scholarship fund, but the discussion should be about that and not about band size, we’ve been rated somewhere in the top 4 (even #1) for quite some time.
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Post by ohsixrain on Jul 9, 2021 9:12:06 GMT -5
Why do we need a big band? No one on the east coast has a large band and we know the big south schools don’t have one either. Please explain the logic of having a large band and no one to battle against🤷🏾♂️ I personally am obsessed with having the best everything. I don't use the Big South or MEAC as measuring sticks when it comes to bands or facilities. Who would honestly want a band the size of Centrals? Imagine if the roles were reversed Small college bands give off broke / high school vibes. Not sure how much you're into band, but every Honda BOTB the band seems to add 40+ members just for the competition. As long as we are competing at HBCU band events, we need a nice sized band. Famu, Bethune, and even Tennessee State hardly traveled, yet they all still have 250+ members. PWIs have 300+ with no one to battle...Talladega has 300+ with no football games. We have been sitting around 220 for the last couple of years, but around 250 is a good number. I wouldn't say that bigger is always better but, you should want all the programs of the institution to excel. The marching band is a program and it has excelled with mere crumbs that they've been given. So, that begs the question, if we gave the band program the average budget resources of the top 5 or 10, you choose, of the top HBCU band programs, what would the program be like or look like...? That's the question. I'll be honest...Dr. Ruff has taken his lemon budget and produced lemonade but, that doesn't mean it's okay to continue to give him lemons. So, to say there are no big bands on the east coast means what...exactly? Also, Westcoastaggie, is the perfect example of what I'm speaking of. He said he would've played baritone for the band if they had offset his out-of-state tuition costs. Do you realize how many students would march in the band if they had some type of financial offset to their tuition bill....? So, that's what it is about...we really need to recruit from our own campus. But, right now, the system is broken so we wound up with a middle sized band. If the system were ever to be fixed, we'd easily have the same sized band as the heavy weights of HBCU marching bands.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Jul 9, 2021 10:45:40 GMT -5
From a marketing perspective, size matters. A band of over 200 creates a spectacle and emblazes the A&T brand in the minds of all that see it. I may not have come to A&T if not for seeing the band as an elementary schooler and being mesmerized imagining myself in that group. Ten years later, it became a reality. The university must continue to invest in that marketing tool known as the BGMM and so should we.
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B&GMM 80
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Post by B&GMM 80 on Jul 9, 2021 11:46:33 GMT -5
I personally am obsessed with having the best everything. I don't use the Big South or MEAC as measuring sticks when it comes to bands or facilities. Who would honestly want a band the size of Centrals? Imagine if the roles were reversed Small college bands give off broke / high school vibes. Not sure how much you're into band, but every Honda BOTB the band seems to add 40+ members just for the competition. As long as we are competing at HBCU band events, we need a nice sized band. Famu, Bethune, and even Tennessee State hardly traveled, yet they all still have 250+ members. PWIs have 300+ with no one to battle...Talladega has 300+ with no football games. We have been sitting around 220 for the last couple of years, but around 250 is a good number. I wouldn't say that bigger is always better but, you should want all the programs of the institution to excel. The marching band is a program and it has excelled with mere crumbs that they've been given. So, that begs the question, if we gave the band program the average budget resources of the top 5 or 10, you choose, of the top HBCU band programs, what would the program be like or look like...? That's the question. I'll be honest...Dr. Ruff has taken his lemon budget and produced lemonade but, that doesn't mean it's okay to continue to give him lemons. So, to say there are no big bands on the east coast means what...exactly? Also, Westcoastaggie, is the perfect example of what I'm speaking of. He said he would've played baritone for the band if they had offset his out-of-state tuition costs. Do you realize how many students would march in the band if they had some type of financial offset to their tuition bill....? So, that's what it is about...we really need to recruit from our own campus. But, right now, the system is broken so we wound up with a middle sized band. If the system were ever to be fixed, we'd easily have the same sized band as the heavy weights of HBCU marching bands. THE BGMM is already considered a HEAVYWEIGHT
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Post by ohsixrain on Jul 9, 2021 11:56:44 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that bigger is always better but, you should want all the programs of the institution to excel. The marching band is a program and it has excelled with mere crumbs that they've been given. So, that begs the question, if we gave the band program the average budget resources of the top 5 or 10, you choose, of the top HBCU band programs, what would the program be like or look like...? That's the question. I'll be honest...Dr. Ruff has taken his lemon budget and produced lemonade but, that doesn't mean it's okay to continue to give him lemons. So, to say there are no big bands on the east coast means what...exactly? Also, Westcoastaggie, is the perfect example of what I'm speaking of. He said he would've played baritone for the band if they had offset his out-of-state tuition costs. Do you realize how many students would march in the band if they had some type of financial offset to their tuition bill....? So, that's what it is about...we really need to recruit from our own campus. But, right now, the system is broken so we wound up with a middle sized band. If the system were ever to be fixed, we'd easily have the same sized band as the heavy weights of HBCU marching bands. THE BGMM is already considered a HEAVYWEIGHT I don't disagree with you but, what would BGMM be if they were funded similarly as the "Heavyweights" is my point. I would just like to see what it would be like you took BCU, Norfolk, Tenn. State, Alcorn & Talladega and averaged their annual budgets and gave it to Dr. Ruff, what would we look like. And I'm not even mentioning: Southern, Jackson State, FAMU, Prairie View or Alabama A&M. No one cares about that because, Dr. Ruff has done and excellent job with what he has...that's the sad part. It's just food for thought, we can always dream, right? But, I don't think it should be a dream.
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tony
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Post by tony on Jul 10, 2021 9:30:51 GMT -5
That article is interesting. There's no way SCSU's budget band budget is 1.1 million. Look at their band. But as ohsixrain pointed out, their budget was that around 2010, and look at their band: www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_4lwnag7QTheir budget has been heavily cut since then, and look at their band now: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNc5XClnvdkEvery point made in that article is true, even if the numbers are out of date. That further backs up the point made. The thing is, our funding issue has been an issue since the 80s, probably before, with predictable results. We've actually done a lot better than most bands with our budget. Financially, our peers are Fayetteville State, WSSU, Livingstone, JCSU. Look at what our staff does compared to them. MB69 suggested even raising 500 per student per semester would help. The thing is, in state tuition is $6500. If money is the factor, how much difference is lowering tuition to $6000 going to make when the bands we're competing with - BCU, Talladega, FAMU, used to be SCSU - are educating them for free? What about recruiting out of state? Definitely a necessary option, but with 20k out of state tuition, financially we're even worse there. I don't think we should let up off the push for more money, but given what that's accomplished over the past 40+ years, I think it's nothing less than irresponsible to stop there. WCA was one of the 300 or so I've heard estimated Aggies every year who played in high school, and didn't play in college. Recruiting isn't the problem - they're already enrolled. Money would help, but we already talked about that. Something about their band experience didn't make them miss it enough to give up their time for a repeat in college. That's back to the point I started the thread with. You have a ton of middle school kids who are disinterested through trash middle school and high school programs, and by the time they hit college don't want it anymore, even when they're in the presence of the best there is. We're still interested in an working on raising $900000 annually to fund the Machine the way the other top programs do it - can we work on placing 2 - 3 good band directors a year to build a pipeline of incoming students at the same time? We didn't get up to FAMU level funding in a year (or 40), and we won't build a pipeline in a year either, but can we put that on the list of goals?
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919aggie
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Post by 919aggie on Jul 10, 2021 11:50:47 GMT -5
That article is interesting. There's no way SCSU's budget band budget is 1.1 million. Look at their band. But as ohsixrain pointed out, their budget was that around 2010, and look at their band: www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_4lwnag7QTheir budget has been heavily cut since then, and look at their band now: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNc5XClnvdkEvery point made in that article is true, even if the numbers are out of date. That further backs up the point made. The thing is, our funding issue has been an issue since the 80s, probably before, with predictable results. We've actually done a lot better than most bands with our budget. Financially, our peers are Fayetteville State, WSSU, Livingstone, JCSU. Look at what our staff does compared to them. MB69 suggested even raising 500 per student per semester would help. The thing is, in state tuition is $6500. If money is the factor, how much difference is lowering tuition to $6000 going to make when the bands we're competing with - BCU, Talladega, FAMU, used to be SCSU - are educating them for free? What about recruiting out of state? Definitely a necessary option, but with 20k out of state tuition, financially we're even worse there. I don't think we should let up off the push for more money, but given what that's accomplished over the past 40+ years, I think it's nothing less than irresponsible to stop there. WCA was one of the 300 or so I've heard estimated Aggies every year who played in high school, and didn't play in college. Recruiting isn't the problem - they're already enrolled. Money would help, but we already talked about that. Something about their band experience didn't make them miss it enough to give up their time for a repeat in college. That's back to the point I started the thread with. You have a ton of middle school kids who are disinterested through trash middle school and high school programs, and by the time they hit college don't want it anymore, even when they're in the presence of the best there is. We're still interested in an working on raising $900000 annually to fund the Machine the way the other top programs do it - can we work on placing 2 - 3 good band directors a year to build a pipeline of incoming students at the same time? We didn't get up to FAMU level funding in a year (or 40), and we won't build a pipeline in a year either, but can we put that on the list of goals? I will forever see good marching bands as a "welcome mat" to a university. In High School, I learned about FAMU before I knew anything about A&T. (Only because the band was so big) Anyone with eyes can see what marching bands do for the SWAC and some people still refuse to see the importance. Southern is in the same boat when it comes to scholarships as A&T, but looking at them you couldn't tell. Mainly due to that High School to College pipeline they have. (Rough Estimates 2019) Talladega(300+), Southern(260+), Jackson St(250+), Pvamu(300+), Famu(280+), Bethune(300 +), Grambling(230+), Miles(220+), TXSU(220+), Alcorn(230+), AAMU(230+), Norfolk (210+) We had about 200 members during that time so we really aren't too far off. The band has also been fairly consistent in size since 2017 besides going from 20 tubas to 12. Starting to notice that rival schools seem to have similar sized bands .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 14:22:08 GMT -5
That article is interesting. There's no way SCSU's budget band budget is 1.1 million. Look at their band. But as ohsixrain pointed out, their budget was that around 2010, and look at their band: www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_4lwnag7QTheir budget has been heavily cut since then, and look at their band now: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNc5XClnvdkEvery point made in that article is true, even if the numbers are out of date. That further backs up the point made. The thing is, our funding issue has been an issue since the 80s, probably before, with predictable results. We've actually done a lot better than most bands with our budget. Financially, our peers are Fayetteville State, WSSU, Livingstone, JCSU. Look at what our staff does compared to them. MB69 suggested even raising 500 per student per semester would help. The thing is, in state tuition is $6500. If money is the factor, how much difference is lowering tuition to $6000 going to make when the bands we're competing with - BCU, Talladega, FAMU, used to be SCSU - are educating them for free? What about recruiting out of state? Definitely a necessary option, but with 20k out of state tuition, financially we're even worse there. I don't think we should let up off the push for more money, but given what that's accomplished over the past 40+ years, I think it's nothing less than irresponsible to stop there. WCA was one of the 300 or so I've heard estimated Aggies every year who played in high school, and didn't play in college. Recruiting isn't the problem - they're already enrolled. Money would help, but we already talked about that. Something about their band experience didn't make them miss it enough to give up their time for a repeat in college. That's back to the point I started the thread with. You have a ton of middle school kids who are disinterested through trash middle school and high school programs, and by the time they hit college don't want it anymore, even when they're in the presence of the best there is. We're still interested in an working on raising $900000 annually to fund the Machine the way the other top programs do it - can we work on placing 2 - 3 good band directors a year to build a pipeline of incoming students at the same time? We didn't get up to FAMU level funding in a year (or 40), and we won't build a pipeline in a year either, but can we put that on the list of goals? As a kid that played in high school, I just have to say that it's just a slow change or evolution in our culture. Even 20+ years ago when I played in middle school and high school, band was looked down upon by many kids, at least in my high school. But even with that, I still played and was even recruited to play by other HBCUs in the SWAC. It didn't stop me from going to A&T. However, when I got to campus, I just got enamored with the freedom. If a scholarship was offered to play, I would've sucked it up and marched and I suspect the other aggies that played in HS but not in the B&GMM past their freshman year, if at all, would've marched all 4 years. It's really a money thing more than a culture issue even though the arts are being pushed out of public schools nationwide. You still have major pockets of Black band members around the country, especially in the south and west. We just have to be able to persuade these kids to keep up with their instruments with scholarships more than we're doing now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 14:24:43 GMT -5
That article is interesting. There's no way SCSU's budget band budget is 1.1 million. Look at their band. But as ohsixrain pointed out, their budget was that around 2010, and look at their band: www.youtube.com/watch?v=az_4lwnag7QTheir budget has been heavily cut since then, and look at their band now: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNc5XClnvdkEvery point made in that article is true, even if the numbers are out of date. That further backs up the point made. The thing is, our funding issue has been an issue since the 80s, probably before, with predictable results. We've actually done a lot better than most bands with our budget. Financially, our peers are Fayetteville State, WSSU, Livingstone, JCSU. Look at what our staff does compared to them. MB69 suggested even raising 500 per student per semester would help. The thing is, in state tuition is $6500. If money is the factor, how much difference is lowering tuition to $6000 going to make when the bands we're competing with - BCU, Talladega, FAMU, used to be SCSU - are educating them for free? What about recruiting out of state? Definitely a necessary option, but with 20k out of state tuition, financially we're even worse there. I don't think we should let up off the push for more money, but given what that's accomplished over the past 40+ years, I think it's nothing less than irresponsible to stop there. WCA was one of the 300 or so I've heard estimated Aggies every year who played in high school, and didn't play in college. Recruiting isn't the problem - they're already enrolled. Money would help, but we already talked about that. Something about their band experience didn't make them miss it enough to give up their time for a repeat in college. That's back to the point I started the thread with. You have a ton of middle school kids who are disinterested through trash middle school and high school programs, and by the time they hit college don't want it anymore, even when they're in the presence of the best there is. We're still interested in an working on raising $900000 annually to fund the Machine the way the other top programs do it - can we work on placing 2 - 3 good band directors a year to build a pipeline of incoming students at the same time? We didn't get up to FAMU level funding in a year (or 40), and we won't build a pipeline in a year either, but can we put that on the list of goals? I will forever see good marching bands as a "welcome mat" to a university. In High School, I learned about FAMU before I knew anything about A&T. (Only because the band was so big) Anyone with eyes can see what marching bands do for the SWAC and some people still refuse to see the importance. Southern is in the same boat when it comes to scholarships as A&T, but looking at them you couldn't tell. Mainly due to that High School to College pipeline they have. (Rough Estimates 2019) Talladega(300+), Southern(260+), Jackson St(250+), Pvamu(300+), Famu(280+), Bethune(300 +), Grambling(230+), Miles(220+), TXSU(220+), Alcorn(230+), AAMU(230+), Norfolk (210+) We had about 200 members during that time so we really aren't too far off. The band has also been fairly consistent in size since 2017 besides going from 20 tubas to 12. Starting to notice that rival schools seem to have similar sized bands . By and large, many MEAC programs and east coast HBCUs are beginning to cut down on their support of the band. Perhaps with the money from Jeff Bezos' ex and influx of corporate $$$ in light of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor's deaths, maybe that changes.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Jul 10, 2021 18:53:44 GMT -5
Millionaire Harvey Makay said..."When you got money, you don't have any problems." His point was you could pay to have a problem go away. If we had money for band scholarships for every band student, our band size and recruiting problem would go away.
I don't care what's happening at other HBCUs or in high schools, we have got to do whatever possible to support the BGMM. I know I'm a bandhead but I'm convinced that the the BGMM is one of the best marketing tools A&T has. Every week hundreds of potential students across the nation follow the BGMM on YouTube. A lot of those kids couldn't find Greensboro on a map but they know about the bgmm!
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Jul 16, 2021 23:48:11 GMT -5
This is what you're up against from the SWAC schools
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919aggie
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Post by 919aggie on Jul 17, 2021 18:30:30 GMT -5
This is what you're up against from the SWAC schools Even Norfolk still recruiting...They will probably be bigger than us this upcoming season again.
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