tony
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Post by tony on Jul 24, 2021 20:30:34 GMT -5
Surely we can agree past inequities go beyond 2007. How far does that data go back, and when does the loss of compounding kick in? Do you think this bill isn't a direct subsidy to athletic scholarships? Again, I don't have a problem with exhausting all resources to achieve academic excellence. A&T and UNC-G can support duplication in the same market place due to volume/need. Something tells me you already knew that. ECSU is in a different locality and duplication puts a damper on enrollment. I don't disagree that the NC Promise experiment can be viewed as a money pit, hence my statement, "until the curriculum matches/evolves to what the the market needs it unlikely to be sustainable". Schools like ECSU have to find their niche. Of course the University leadership has to have a vision and be instrumental in developing the direction. My thought is instead of subsidizing athletic scholarships, maybe the NC State Legislation should spend money to assist UNC System members with curriculum development for the future. ECU Costal Studies Program (link)I grew up walking distance from the new site for THE COASTAL STUDIES INSTITUTE - ECU Outer Banks Campus. Impressive structures are rising up from the marsh in Dare County. This is the type of programs ECSU will need to survive. If you know this area, you know ECSU is slightly closer, but sits right on the Pasquotank River, minutes from the Albemarle Sound and the Atlantic Ocean. Little Liz's niche as a Teachers College is over. Again, Bottom-line it for me:Is it you don't see the inequity or don't care that an inequity exist as long as A&T can play? I see these as two unrelated issues. I don't know anything specific about the situation at ECSU. But it brings to mind Morris Brown and SC State. Both cases were caused by a combination of leadership failure and opposition from the government. I have no idea how hostile the state is / has been to ECSU - probably fairly so. And that's a fight that does need to be had. Both with the government and with institutional leadership. Historic opposition aside, Morris Brown is doing much better under their new president. We still need to close tabs on how well ECSU, and all of our schools are being taken care of. But things like that are rarely an either / or proposition.
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Post by aggieswag on Jul 24, 2021 21:31:37 GMT -5
If I was in the legislature I would support this bill. It’s not pretty but it levels the playing field. There are many other states that already do this and I am also a proponent of allowing the state to cover coaches salaries for the same reason.
This is a necessary evil. Like incentives. No one enjoys giving tax breaks and give away a to big corporations to entice them to come here. But if Roanoke is doing it, and Greenville, Sc is doing it - then to compete NC and Greensboro has to do it too. This is the same thing.
I understand Rep. Harrison’s point but it’s not really the point. If we didn’t make policy because the big 4 schools would benefit the most then we would never pass a policy. That’s like saying we not given incentives checks in the state of NC because Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro would get a big bulk of it. Well of course they have the most people. The better way to look at it is that UNC is on the same level as Florida State, and A&T is on the same level as FAMU.
A&T would benefit greatly from this bill, along with all the other schools on NC. It’s not pretty but policy rarely is. It’s necessary and we should be supporting it.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Jul 25, 2021 11:09:29 GMT -5
I see these as two unrelated issues. I don't know anything specific about the situation at ECSU. But it brings to mind Morris Brown and SC State. Both cases were caused by a combination of leadership failure and opposition from the government. I have no idea how hostile the state is / has been to ECSU - probably fairly so. And that's a fight that does need to be had. Both with the government and with institutional leadership. Historic opposition aside, Morris Brown is doing much better under their new president. We still need to close tabs on how well ECSU, and all of our schools are being taken care of. But things like that are rarely an either / or proposition. I agree, these are two separate issues, but did you see how second issue (ECSU) was invoked? It an attempted to conflate ECSU academic subsidy with the pending athletic scholarship subsidy as being the same.
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Post by aggie2039 on Jul 25, 2021 11:46:42 GMT -5
I see these as two unrelated issues. I don't know anything specific about the situation at ECSU. But it brings to mind Morris Brown and SC State. Both cases were caused by a combination of leadership failure and opposition from the government. I have no idea how hostile the state is / has been to ECSU - probably fairly so. And that's a fight that does need to be had. Both with the government and with institutional leadership. Historic opposition aside, Morris Brown is doing much better under their new president. We still need to close tabs on how well ECSU, and all of our schools are being taken care of. But things like that are rarely an either / or proposition. I agree, these are two separate issues, but did you see second issue (ECSU) was invoked? It an attempted to conflate ECSU academic subsidy with pending athletic scholarship subsidy as being the same. It is definitely the same…both use tax payer dollars. And point out the hypocrisy of your point of view. ECSU is a waste of tax payer dollars…the return in invest is less than that of reducing tuition for out of state athletes. There are other colleges in the state of North Carolina that those students can enroll in. That $45M a year would have greater impact at any other HBCU in the state or equally divided amongst the four remaining public HBCUs. A winning athletics team brings in big money for the state/local governments and the university/college. The waiver for Athletics has a greater return on investment for the state than ecsu.
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Jul 25, 2021 12:02:45 GMT -5
If I was in the legislature I would support this bill. It’s not pretty but it levels the playing field. There are many other states that already do this and I am also a proponent of allowing the state to cover coaches salaries for the same reason. This is a necessary evil. Like incentives. No one enjoys giving tax breaks and give away a to big corporations to entice them to come here. But if Roanoke is doing it, and Greenville, Sc is doing it - then to compete NC and Greensboro has to do it too. This is the same thing. I understand Rep. Harrison’s point but it’s not really the point. If we didn’t make policy because the big 4 schools would benefit the most then we would never pass a policy. That’s like saying we not given incentives checks in the state of NC because Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro would get a big bulk of it. Well of course they have the most people. The better way to look at it is that UNC is on the same level as Florida State, and A&T is on the same level as FAMU. A&T would benefit greatly from this bill, along with all the other schools on NC. It’s not pretty but policy rarely is. It’s necessary and we should be supporting it. If this is such a good deal, why was it repealed previously? Because it was at the taxpayer expense. You do realize that this bill has no limit, from zero to all out-of-state scholarships can be funded with an outside entity. Do think the paying will be more level when 50% of the scholarship subsidy is divided between just three member institutions, primarily because they already have the money not because they need the money? I hold the same position as Rep. Pricey Harrison (and I wish more did), that it would mostly benefit well-heeled booster clubs like the Rams Club at UNC-Chapel Hill and the break should be limited to smaller universities that couldn’t otherwise afford the scholarships? "If we didn’t make policy because the big 4 schools would benefit the most then we would never pass a policy." What? You're right, we should just shut all schools down but the big schools, because the small school shouldn't have any policy that benefits them. In fact, I call for an immediate moratorium on NC Promise Program and close the doors of UNC-P and ECSU. I just don't understand the mentality that the big schools deserve more! Why should they have a bigger say? This is about UNC-CH, NCSU, maybe ECU, UNC-C, etc. being more competitive on a national level against other P5 conferences at the taxpayer expense. This has nothing to do with academics at all. I think the current system is as level as the playing field can get, each school pays the cost of a scholarship whether in-state or out-of-state. When A&T gets an outside entity to pick up the tab, I could be convinced otherwise!
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Aggie77
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Post by Aggie77 on Jul 25, 2021 12:39:19 GMT -5
I agree, these are two separate issues, but did you see second issue (ECSU) was invoked? It an attempted to conflate the ECSU academic subsidy with the pending athletic scholarship subsidy as being the same. It is definitely the same…both use tax payer dollars. And point out the hypocrisy of your point of view. ECSU is a waste of tax payer dollars…the return in invest is less than that of reducing tuition for out of state athletes. There are other colleges in the state of North Carolina that those students can enroll in. That $45M a year would have greater impact at any other HBCU in the state or equally divided amongst the four remaining public HBCUs. A winning athletics team brings in big money for the state/local governments and the university/college. Unrelated hyperbole!The waiver for Athletics has a greater return on investment for the state than ecsu. Yes, I will agree both are a cost to the taxpayer. I think the attraction of the NC Promise Program is the cost to low income families. How is it a waste for anyone to receive a college degree? Everybody can't afford go UNC or A&T. I guess will we have to agree to disagree if it's better to educate thousands of merit based but income restricted North Carolinians over hundreds of out-of-state student-athletics. That's why it's not the same. " The waiver for Athletics has a greater return on investment for the state than ecsu." Wow, you are really against ECSU! Please provide your rationale for this ROI basis (sounds like more hyperbole to see what sticks). What tax revenue will see a significant increase? I think over the lifetime of the number of college educated graduates will have a greater tangible and intangible ROI than the intermitted repeal and reestablishment of this legislation. Because it's generational.
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Post by aggie2039 on Jul 25, 2021 17:10:58 GMT -5
It is definitely the same…both use tax payer dollars. And point out the hypocrisy of your point of view. ECSU is a waste of tax payer dollars…the return in invest is less than that of reducing tuition for out of state athletes. There are other colleges in the state of North Carolina that those students can enroll in. That $45M a year would have greater impact at any other HBCU in the state or equally divided amongst the four remaining public HBCUs. A winning athletics team brings in big money for the state/local governments and the university/college. Unrelated hyperbole!The waiver for Athletics has a greater return on investment for the state than ecsu. Yes, I will agree both are a cost to the taxpayer. I think the attraction of the NC Promise Program is the cost to low income families. How is it a waste for anyone to receive a college degree? Everybody can't afford go UNC or A&T. I guess will we have to agree to disagree if it's better to educate thousands of merit based but income restricted North Carolinians over hundreds of out-of-state student-athletics. That's why it's not the same. " The waiver for Athletics has a greater return on investment for the state than ecsu." Wow, you are really against ECSU! Please provide your rationale for this ROI basis (sounds like more hyperbole to see what sticks). What tax revenue will see a significant increase? I think over the lifetime of the number of college educated graduates will have a greater tangible and intangible ROI than the intermitted repeal and reestablishment of this legislation. Because it's generational. I’m not against ecsu, I’m against hypocrisy. Those same students can attend a different college where it won’t cost tax payers 2 to 3 times what it cost to attend, like Fayetteville state or wssu. We keep saying A&T winning the celebration bowl has helped increase enrollment, that increase in enrollment directly translates into more students paying to attend A&T and spending money on the local economy. Those same 2000 students at ecsu can be educated elsewhere and save tax payers ~ $30M annually The program at ecsu and wcu is designed to stimulate the economy in rural areas…there is nothing stopping the state from giving Pell grant recipients scholarships to attend other schools. It would actually be cheaper and save tax dollars. The state is $24k per student at ecsu when they could give them a full scholarship to A&T for half the cost. With that $45M ~ 3000 to 3500 instate students could be given full scholarships to A&T.
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Post by aggie2039 on Nov 17, 2021 1:00:38 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2021 7:22:38 GMT -5
Thank goodness this passed honestly.
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Post by AggiePride on Nov 21, 2021 12:09:42 GMT -5
$500k! Wow! Any idea where that saving is going to be used?
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Post by aggie2039 on Nov 21, 2021 12:23:57 GMT -5
$500k! Wow! Any idea where that saving is going to be used? Buying out a coach🤷🏾♂️😂😂😂
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Post by AggiePride on Nov 21, 2021 12:27:58 GMT -5
$500k! Wow! Any idea where that saving is going to be used? Buying out a coach🤷🏾♂️😂😂😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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919aggie
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Post by 919aggie on Nov 21, 2021 13:05:42 GMT -5
$500k! Wow! Any idea where that saving is going to be used? Buying out a coach🤷🏾♂️😂😂😂
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