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Post by DOOMS on Nov 13, 2020 13:23:55 GMT -5
In retrospect, what impact do you think did the "Abolish the Police" movement had on this recent election? Think? I know for a fact it cost Democrats some seats.
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Nov 13, 2020 13:43:20 GMT -5
In retrospect, what impact do you think did the "Abolish the Police" movement had on this recent election? Think? I know for a fact it cost Democrats some seats. SCSU Alum Jim Clyburn on the case...
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Nov 13, 2020 13:46:44 GMT -5
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Post by lobengula on Nov 13, 2020 15:01:48 GMT -5
As I understand defund the police it means to allocate less monies toward the police but more to community budgets such as recreational facilities being that the funds are from the local property tax base primarily, sin taxes alcohol tobacco, court fines which some locals have used tremendously which is in fact a hidden tax. The primary factor toward this argument slogan phase is qualified immunity for the police. In other words the police can do no wrong. While the African community is over policed, many see the police as an occupying military force similar to Occupied Palestine. What has been missed is the failure of the Democrats to control the narrative. For instance their messages has been tainted with socialism. The counter would be fascism which is in fact what Drumppt et. al are promoting. Sadly Clyburn is drinking the koolaid from Clinton at John Lewis funeral by throwing shade on Stokely Carmichael and others in the movement who were fighting for legitimate aspirations legally. As we see in our communities police are needed for order so we are not against the police we are against police dis-order. Basically in this era of re-imagining policing it has to be based upon an ancient idea from Justinian in order to achieve true justice restorative for the sake of us all.
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Post by lobengula on Nov 13, 2020 15:06:21 GMT -5
It was not the young folk shouting burn baby burn or black power that hurt the movement. It was the Democratic Party along with the UAW that betrayed King. In fact Walter Reuther was very disrespectful toward Martin 1964 Convention with Fannie Lou Hamer as I recall.
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Nov 13, 2020 15:09:31 GMT -5
I am torn on this one. Clyburn is correct in his analysis. but there always has to be an extreme position expressed in order to force the hand of the practical from being too conservative. The real problem is that we do not have the economic power to substantially back the position. Republicans do not have any problem saying outrageous things with no consequences at all. Power determines perspective. Here's an interesting article on the history of policing in America as it relates to race and class. www.npr.org/2020/06/05/871083599/the-history-of-police-in-creating-social-order-in-the-u-s
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Post by Bornthrilla on Nov 13, 2020 15:18:41 GMT -5
but there always has to be an extreme position expressed in order to force the hand of the practical from being too conservative. Why? I don't understand why anyone would need to state something that is not feasible and that they don't really believe in order to just negotiate for something more realistic. If you dont really want to "Abolish the Police", why in the world would you promote that slogan during an election year?
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Nov 13, 2020 15:20:23 GMT -5
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Maxell
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Post by Maxell on Nov 13, 2020 15:41:36 GMT -5
but there always has to be an extreme position expressed in order to force the hand of the practical from being too conservative. Why? I don't understand why anyone would need to state something that is not feasible and that they don't really believe in order to just negotiate for something more realistic. If you dont really want to "Abolish the Police", why in the world would you promote that slogan during an election year? The same reason there was a Malcolm AND a Martin.
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Post by DOOMS on Nov 13, 2020 16:15:22 GMT -5
True story: My wife, sister in law, and my three children were forced off I-95 on a rainy columbus day. My wife's Prius spun four times across three lanes of traffic and ended up against a guardrail while the white "gentleman" just gave them a look and drove off in his pickup. The driver of the pickup purposely moved into her lane, hit the back corner of the car, and sped up until she spun out. The policeman that arrived just took a report and went on with his merry day. What he did not note or mention was that the other driver used the PIT maneuver, which is used by police officers to stop fleeing vehicles. I have two cousins in law enforcement and when I told them what happened that was the FIRST thing out of their mouths. Yet the officer taking the report didn't so much as raise an eyebrow. Why is this relevant? My wife, sister in law, and children were almost murdered by a former or current police officer who is most likely driving up and down the highway seething over the "abolish the police" slogan. Whoever thought that sheeet up needs an a$$ whupping. For as long as I've been alive, people in politics have gained the advantage by utilizing the time-honored tradition of the okey doke. "We'll absolutely give you x" and then you don't get a thing. It's how they get votes. If you want the police union (probably the most powerful union around) to back you, you don't ever, ever, everevereverever even hint at taking a dollar from them. You say you'll give them more money, more toys, more power, and more overtime, and then you earmark the money for more actual toys to be used at the police athletic clubs and more power and overtime to work as coaches at said clubs. Let's be real, when we were growing up most of us were told that growing up to be a policeman was an honorable profession. What happened? Probably this: medium.com/@ofcracab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759While I think the article is a good read, it's also most likely a work of fiction. A work of fiction based in fact though. It's very hard to push back against that type of culture, but it's doable. It starts with the okey doke.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Nov 13, 2020 17:15:49 GMT -5
Why? I don't understand why anyone would need to state something that is not feasible and that they don't really believe in order to just negotiate for something more realistic. If you dont really want to "Abolish the Police", why in the world would you promote that slogan during an election year? The same reason there was a Malcolm AND a Martin. I have no idea what that means. Are you suggesting that Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. both made wild statements just so they would later be able to negotiate for something else more realistic? Personally, I always assumed they were speaking exactly what they believed. Just dont see the political advantage of promoting a slogan that you candidly don't think will ever work.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Nov 13, 2020 21:38:37 GMT -5
True story: My wife, sister in law, and my three children were forced off I-95 on a rainy columbus day. My wife's Prius spun four times across three lanes of traffic and ended up against a guardrail while the white "gentleman" just gave them a look and drove off in his pickup. The driver of the pickup purposely moved into her lane, hit the back corner of the car, and sped up until she spun out. The policeman that arrived just took a report and went on with his merry day. What he did not note or mention was that the other driver used the PIT maneuver, which is used by police officers to stop fleeing vehicles. I have two cousins in law enforcement and when I told them what happened that was the FIRST thing out of their mouths. Yet the officer taking the report didn't so much as raise an eyebrow. Why is this relevant? My wife, sister in law, and children were almost murdered by a former or current police officer who is most likely driving up and down the highway seething over the "abolish the police" slogan. Whoever thought that sheeet up needs an a$$ whupping. For as long as I've been alive, people in politics have gained the advantage by utilizing the time-honored tradition of the okey doke. "We'll absolutely give you x" and then you don't get a thing. It's how they get votes. If you want the police union (probably the most powerful union around) to back you, you don't ever, ever, everevereverever even hint at taking a dollar from them. You say you'll give them more money, more toys, more power, and more overtime, and then you earmark the money for more actual toys to be used at the police athletic clubs and more power and overtime to work as coaches at said clubs. Let's be real, when we were growing up most of us were told that growing up to be a policeman was an honorable profession. What happened? Probably this: medium.com/@ofcracab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759While I think the article is a good read, it's also most likely a work of fiction. A work of fiction based in fact though. It's very hard to push back against that type of culture, but it's doable. It starts with the okey doke. That's scary, but I'm not sure you can 100 percent assume that driver was a police officer. I am familiar with that PIT maneuver myself just from playing video games. He could just have been a regular psychopath. Also, I dont like the okey doke or bait and switch approach when it comes to politics. Eventually people will figure out that you are just telling them what they want to hear, and then you will lose all credibility.
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Post by lobengula on Nov 14, 2020 9:31:06 GMT -5
I am torn on this one. Clyburn is correct in his analysis. but there always has to be an extreme position expressed in order to force the hand of the practical from being too conservative. The real problem is that we do not have the economic power to substantially back the position. Republicans do not have any problem saying outrageous things with no consequences at all. Power determines perspective. Here's an interesting article on the history of policing in America as it relates to race and class. www.npr.org/2020/06/05/871083599/the-history-of-police-in-creating-social-order-in-the-u-sIt is so sad to hear Clyburn continuing to blame the youth of yesteryear for the failure of the Democratic Party to implement policy for the country then and now. While Clyburn is entitled to his opinion it is replete with intellectual dishonesty with an ad hominem echo. Basically it was the results of the 1964 Democratic Convention over the seating of the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party that defined the Democratic Party then and continues to this moment. Had the Democratic Party had the intestinal fortitude to argue for positive action for the people such as financial assistance during this Plandemic, expansion of medical access for the rural communities where there has been hospitals closures, rather than engaging in semantical gymnastics the results might have been different with control of the Senate. Obviously Clyburn still harbors anger toward Stokely as do former President Bill Clinton with his nonsense. So when we review the 1963 March on Washington one can understand Malcolm X's critique of that event with the behind the scenes activities particularly in regards to denial of James Baldwin opportunity to speak as well as a revision of John Lewis's speech. Clyburn like Pelosi are impediments to progress in a crucial epoch.
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Post by Bornthrilla on Nov 14, 2020 10:51:20 GMT -5
Didn't realize James Baldwin was denied the chance to speak at the 63 March on Washington. Interesting.
That might have rivaled even MLK's speech that day.
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Post by Maxell on Nov 14, 2020 16:28:27 GMT -5
Didn't realize James Baldwin was denied the chance to speak at the 63 March on Washington. Interesting. That might have rivaled even MLK's speech that day. They weren't ready for James Baldwin. He would have had to go last because he would have lit that place up with the kind intellectual yet practical prose of which there would have been no retort. In reflecting on history, every time Black folk have "played nice" we have been disappointed. I've personally experienced five generations of this, from my grandfather to my grandson, and I'm extremely tired. America has not been able to cure white supremacy, but we now have to beat it into remission (at least for a while).
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