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Post by aggie2039 on Jul 4, 2020 11:10:16 GMT -5
Freeze I think you are spot on. I said it in an earlier post - these kids are not us. And thank god. But you have to consider the psyche of the kid. If a kid is intentionally selecting a hbcu then he is intentionally woke. An intentionally woke kid will have major problems selecting A&T. 1. The pwi argument would be better if the pwis in the big south was worth a damn. Who cares if you beat Campbell or Monmouth. Not one person in the world. Just like no one blinked an eye when we beat Charleston southern and Gardner Webb. Facts are facts. If I am an athlete it would appeal more to me to play top schools and black opponents. That is what would motivate me. “I am glad I will be gone by the time we move to that conference- I would have had 500 yards a game “ - Jahmaine Martin ... hear that because i fear that’s what other athlete will say. 2. Recruiting tool - if I was recruiting against us to a player like that our move to the big south would be golden. It reaks of sell out. “This is the school that destroyed a black conference to save a white conference that was worse” And very easy to make that case. I hope I am wrong. Our country is in a paradigm shift. This move does not look as good as it did yesterday. I am really worried. But also know there is nothing we can do to change it. I hope minds are coming together to address it. I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have to say that you should not be "worried" at all. I work with high school athletes ALL the time. Not as much as say, an actual head coach, but I work with them a lot. I talk to them about college choices in multiple sports. This is not their mindset at all. First -- These kids nor their parents really know the history of any of the schools outside of their general area. Yeah, if you have HBCU parents and they took you to GAMES(not tailgates) every year or you live down the street then you may know a little something. But they still don't know about BCU, FAMU, Elon, Coastal, Norfolk, etc. They just don't. Even if they have heard of some of those schools that's pretty much it. They just heard of them. Half the PEOPLE(students and parents) I talk to don't really know who is in what conference. They know somewhat, but a lot of people still think us and NCCU are part of the CIAA because of the popularity of the bball tournament. Most parents I talk to about choosing an HBCU say stuff like, "we tried and they were not interested" or "they were not offering as much scholarship money as this school over here". I just had an athlete choose UNCC over any HBCU because it was full ride vs partial ride. So we will not lose any more recruits because we play in the Big South. We will lose recruits for the reason we have always lose recruits. 2nd -- When it come to choosing a school for competition and recognition. They don't choose because of that either really, not at the FCS or Non-Power 5 they don't. That recruiting tactic is used by the SEC against other conferences. Everyone wants to WIN. Winning is the one thing that gets you recruits when they have options. No one wants to join someone that doesn't put in the effort to become winners. Thats its, it's that simple with these kids. Being an HBCU in a non-all black conference DOES NOT cross these kids nor parents minds at all. Not at all. Thats an alumni thing. We the only ones having this discussion. Maybe current players because it directly effects them but once they hit that field...A TD against Campbell feels just as good as a TD vs Norfolk state. So if we take care of home games and make our experience the best we can make it then we will always be good. You said no one cared, but no one cared because we knew all we have to do is win the MEAC and we go the the CB. Good win, but lets move on. They were non-conference. That wont be the case in 2021. We will care. At least we should, but I really think we will. Lose to one of them and blow our playoff chances and see how much everyone cares. Lastly, Jahmaine Martin. You talking about a kid that was at Coastal. Some people might think that qualifies him to speak on it and others might say, he chose them and didn't choose us until you had no options. He has a right to his opinion and I'm sure he means what he says. he even has the right to have changed his opinion over the years. But come on dude. Where was all this black love or dislike for a all white conference when you chose Coastal? He had offers from Citadel, Coastal, and Western Carolina coming out of high school. Not sure if any HBCUs offered or not because Rivals don't tend to list HBCUs that offered all the time because some of those idiots don't or didn't view us as real FCS. Anyways, he just emotional about it and he probably is glad his last year will be spent in the same conference he became a star in. I would feel that way also and probably say the same exact thing, but its not relevant to what athletes will think moving forward. If the "sellout" guilt trip actually worked on athletes then HBCUs would already be dominating FCS. Think about that. Spot on bro...my A&T classmates sons just chose NC State and Georgia Southern over HBCUs even with everything that is going on in America. Even more I have noticed that these kids at P5 schools arent leaving they are just saying they want names of buildings changed and statues removed. We wont get the players we want until alumni increase donations so facilities can be upgraded and more non-athletic scholarship money is available.
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Jul 4, 2020 11:27:04 GMT -5
Not supporting A&T because of the visiting schools sounds backwards, but so be it if boycotting and making us fail sounds better. No one said anything about not supporting T. I'll be at the games, and I am particularly excited about seeing A&T at Kennesaw State when they come down here (or at least for however long Kennesaw State is going to be in the BS). I also mentioned that I am looking forward to going to Pittsburgh...but I also realize that most of us don't represent the average Aggie fan who whether we like it or not, still come to the games largely to see our band and the opposing HBCU bands, relish in the pageantry of HBCU culture, and feel comfortable relaxing in welcoming Black spaces (both home and away). Mark my words and the words of others who have concerns about this as well....by leaving one of only two HBCU conferences that serve D1 sports, we are ABSOLUTELY abandoning a niche that will NOT be replicated in the BS. And the overwhelming majority of our fans are going to hate this and never get accustomed to us only playing two or three HBCUs a year. NEVER. I don't doubt the administration when they say it will save us money, that it will allow our student athletes to be on campus more often, or that the BS has certain attributes that the MEAC can't provide. But there are residual cultural benefits of being in the MEAC as well that the majority of our fans have grown accustomed to and relish. And as of today....I think we are going to regret this move and the disappointment will show in our larger fanbase.
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Post by DECKS on Jul 4, 2020 12:00:38 GMT -5
I was really reluctant to post this and others have already expressed this in their own way in separate threads. But I think it's an important topic to expound on and hopefully we can have an intelligent discussion about it. Black colleges are sitting at a very important crossroads right now. Much of the racial tension that is being unleashed in the country is once again being fueled by young people, many of them college aged youth. If HBCUs properly seize this moment, they can once again offer themselves as a powerful alternative where Black youth can be empowered and inspired to serve as change agents during this national crisis. I imagine if we weren't currently dealing with a pandemic, HBCUs would see a rise in their enrollment numbers due to this. Having said that, I am going to point out what we all know to be true...the HBCU experience is vastly different. We do not have the same campus culture that Big South institutions do, nor do we share the same historical mission. I DO NOT expect that to change for A&T. HOWEVER, I do think we lose out on marketing the HBCU niche that so many students AND student-athletes look for. Today's commitment of 5 star basketball athlete Maker Makur to Howard could indeed be a watershed moment where other top caliber Black athletes begin to look to HBCUs as an alternative. I am sure that a large part of Makur's commitment was influenced by the desire to completely indulge in the HBCU game day culture which will include going to other Black institutions and playing against the likes of Norfolk, NCCU, Morgan, and others. It concerns me that our players and students are going to lose that road game experience when we begin to play the Campbel's, Radford's, and Monmouth's of the Big South world. If indeed we begin to see a groundswell of Black athletes wanting to return to Black colleges for the full experience, how much of that experience will we be able to offer them if the majority of our opponents don't share our HBCU culture?? I get that the university gave great thought and study as to why it was time to leave the MEAC....however I wonder how much or how long did A&T dwell on the problem of losing the HBCU niche....or did it dwell on it at all?? I totally get what you are saying but I'm not sure how much hbcu experience they'll be missing when you consider the majority of our MEAC road games are played in sparsely attended arenas and stadiums. The teams that draw well when we come to town are likely still going to be on the schedule. Of course perception is everything.... so we may need to tweak our recruiting pitch because if we're going up against an MEAC or SWAC school recruiting one of these woke athletes we may come out on the short end.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 12:06:23 GMT -5
So how much money do I have to contribute to help with recruiting?
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Jul 4, 2020 12:39:19 GMT -5
I was really reluctant to post this and others have already expressed this in their own way in separate threads. But I think it's an important topic to expound on and hopefully we can have an intelligent discussion about it. Black colleges are sitting at a very important crossroads right now. Much of the racial tension that is being unleashed in the country is once again being fueled by young people, many of them college aged youth. If HBCUs properly seize this moment, they can once again offer themselves as a powerful alternative where Black youth can be empowered and inspired to serve as change agents during this national crisis. I imagine if we weren't currently dealing with a pandemic, HBCUs would see a rise in their enrollment numbers due to this. Having said that, I am going to point out what we all know to be true...the HBCU experience is vastly different. We do not have the same campus culture that Big South institutions do, nor do we share the same historical mission. I DO NOT expect that to change for A&T. HOWEVER, I do think we lose out on marketing the HBCU niche that so many students AND student-athletes look for. Today's commitment of 5 star basketball athlete Maker Makur to Howard could indeed be a watershed moment where other top caliber Black athletes begin to look to HBCUs as an alternative. I am sure that a large part of Makur's commitment was influenced by the desire to completely indulge in the HBCU game day culture which will include going to other Black institutions and playing against the likes of Norfolk, NCCU, Morgan, and others. It concerns me that our players and students are going to lose that road game experience when we begin to play the Campbel's, Radford's, and Monmouth's of the Big South world. If indeed we begin to see a groundswell of Black athletes wanting to return to Black colleges for the full experience, how much of that experience will we be able to offer them if the majority of our opponents don't share our HBCU culture?? I get that the university gave great thought and study as to why it was time to leave the MEAC....however I wonder how much or how long did A&T dwell on the problem of losing the HBCU niche....or did it dwell on it at all?? I totally get what you are saying but I'm not sure how much hbcu experience they'll be missing when you consider the majority of our MEAC road games are played in sparsely attended arenas and stadiums. The teams that draw well when we come to town are likely still going to be on the schedule. Of course perception is everything.... so we may need to tweak our recruiting pitch because if we're going up against an MEAC or SWAC school recruiting one of these woke athletes we may come out on the short end. Hey...I hope I'm wrong. But put me down as one of those cats who don't easily see that this move was a slam dunk, no brainer decision. Culture is not "emotion" as one poster earlier alluded to. Culture matters. And we are absolutely giving up a culture/niche by making this move. Not an individual campus culture....I don't believe that this move white washes our institution. But I do believe we are on the verge of leaving our HBCU conglomerate at the very historical moment when the cultural cache of Blackness matters most. But hey...here's to the big payoffs that come with our athletes competing in the BS. Folks way smarter than me when it comes to understanding the landscape of college sports made that decision and I hope that they are right.
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Post by aggieswag on Jul 4, 2020 13:28:02 GMT -5
I don’t disagree with any of the references on the current climate. A movement a cultural shift is exactly that. The way you used to think - you don’t think that way anymore. All of this has been a mindset forever. We’ve always had the power as you all know. We just didn’t think that way. What if we actually do.
I am worried because I’ve seen two subsequent tweets from other players intending to go to hbcus. And power 5 recruits do look for exposure. It may not be important to the kid going to Elon and Charleston southern, but it is important to the kid that has offers from Kentucky and LSU. So again if we are going to compete we are going to have to think different. The brilliant minds that adapted to current climate and made us the number one can also navigate thru the new climate.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Jul 4, 2020 14:03:39 GMT -5
All I ask (and I've said this before) is that IF the BS experiment is not going well after 3-4 years....I just want the AD, president, BOTs and all other protagonists for the move ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG AND MOVE BACK. If things are going great.....keep it moving!
I just don't want pride and egos to get in the way of making necessary evaluations/changes in 5 years......IF they're needed.
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Post by DECKS on Jul 4, 2020 14:27:33 GMT -5
All I ask (and I've said this before) is that IF the BS experiment is not going well after 3-4 years....I just want the AD, president, BOTs and all other protagonists for the move ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG AND MOVE BACK. If things are going great.....keep it moving! I just don't want pride and egos to get in the way of making necessary evaluations/changes in 5 years...... IF they're needed. As far as I'm concerned no one has to admit they were wrong. Just move back.
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Freeze
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Post by Freeze on Jul 4, 2020 14:58:19 GMT -5
All I ask (and I've said this before) is that IF the BS experiment is not going well after 3-4 years....I just want the AD, president, BOTs and all other protagonists for the move ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG AND MOVE BACK. If things are going great.....keep it moving! I just don't want pride and egos to get in the way of making necessary evaluations/changes in 5 years...... IF they're needed. That's fair. And that's where I stand too. I'm hoping for the best but my "Spidey sense" is damn sure tingling.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jul 4, 2020 15:10:07 GMT -5
To further drive home my point. I just ran across a high school football player immediately after my last post. I swear! I said "hey man, who is in A&T football conference." Now mind you, this kid been to games at A&T. I know it for a fact. I quote "Central and uuuuuuuummmmmmmmm, I cant remember right now". LMAO! You cant make this up.
Stop worrying about recruits thinking we sellouts or thinking we aint a real HBCU anymore. Not going to happen. Then I asked, well do you even know they switching conferences after this year. I expected a "no" since he didn't even know who was in the conference in the first place. He obviously said "no". This kid is an HBCU raised kid. He knew NOTHING or cared about NOTHING. He just wanna play football. Do you own poll of teenage athletes and you will definitely get the same vibe.
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Post by bluehaze on Jul 4, 2020 15:56:58 GMT -5
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Post by DOOMS on Jul 4, 2020 18:04:29 GMT -5
All I ask (and I've said this before) is that IF the BS experiment is not going well after 3-4 years....I just want the AD, president, BOTs and all other protagonists for the move ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG AND MOVE BACK. If things are going great.....keep it moving! I just don't want pride and egos to get in the way of making necessary evaluations/changes in 5 years...... IF they're needed. Pride and egos (and blind loyalty) appear to be the main stumbling block that kept us from making the move out of the conference earlier. These folk in this administration look like the type to ride as soon as something better comes along. I sincerely doubt we've seen the last assessment of where we should be conference-wise. They'll probably do them yearly or at the bare minimum bi-annually, and as soon as something better is suggested, we'll be moving. Another thought I had on kids possibly steering clear of us because we're in a pwi conference. If you're woke to the level you're turning your nose up at the thought of attending a pwc, would your wokeness be to the point that you primarily want to play against fellow hbcus? At the end of the day what does that really prove? My personal wokeness would be that I would want to prove that we can win the whole shebang against anybody. What's the point of stockpiling all the talent and not regularly proving your mettle against pwis? It wouldn't surprise me if that's not the recruiting pitch that keeps TSU at the top of the recruiting rankings for hbcus.
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Post by aggieswag on Jul 4, 2020 19:11:37 GMT -5
To further drive home my point. I just ran across a high school football player immediately after my last post. I swear! I said "hey man, who is in A&T football conference." Now mind you, this kid been to games at A&T. I know it for a fact. I quote "Central and uuuuuuuummmmmmmmm, I cant remember right now". LMAO! You cant make this up. Stop worrying about recruits thinking we sellouts or thinking we aint a real HBCU anymore. Not going to happen. Then I asked, well do you even know they switching conferences after this year. I expected a "no" since he didn't even know who was in the conference in the first place. He obviously said "no". This kid is an HBCU raised kid. He knew NOTHING or cared about NOTHING. He just wanna play football. Do you own poll of teenage athletes and you will definitely get the same vibe. I hear you but this is Apple and Oranges. Again this is new the movement has just begun. Most kids will be thinking the days of old until they hear the voices of the others telling why they chose an hbcu. And if said player(s) become a big hit then you will see the tide turn. Anedotecal evidence at this point is premature.
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Post by aggie2039 on Jul 4, 2020 19:37:32 GMT -5
To further drive home my point. I just ran across a high school football player immediately after my last post. I swear! I said "hey man, who is in A&T football conference." Now mind you, this kid been to games at A&T. I know it for a fact. I quote "Central and uuuuuuuummmmmmmmm, I cant remember right now". LMAO! You cant make this up. Stop worrying about recruits thinking we sellouts or thinking we aint a real HBCU anymore. Not going to happen. Then I asked, well do you even know they switching conferences after this year. I expected a "no" since he didn't even know who was in the conference in the first place. He obviously said "no". This kid is an HBCU raised kid. He knew NOTHING or cared about NOTHING. He just wanna play football. Do you own poll of teenage athletes and you will definitely get the same vibe. I hear you but this is Apple and Oranges. Again this is new the movement has just begun. Most kids will be thinking the days of old until they hear the voices of the others telling why they chose an hbcu. And if said player(s) become a big hit then you will see the tide turn. Anedotecal evidence at this point is premature. Again my fellow alums kids just committed to NC State and Georgia Southern in football. Their parents are A&T grads and they still signed with PWIs like 3 weeks and 3 days ago.
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Post by aggie2039 on Jul 4, 2020 20:09:00 GMT -5
Even better we signed a major track and field class after the announcement of moving to the Big South. Athletes that want to attend a HBCU and compete at the highest level and win will continue to sign with A&T.
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