|
Post by outsidethinker on Feb 13, 2020 11:31:01 GMT -5
I like to think that we have administrators that are smart enough to trust but verify before making a move to the Big South. To be fair, our administrators reportedly voted against the Celebration Bowl concept when it was first presented ... and that turned out to be the best thing to happen to our athletic department in the past decade. So if we are keeping score, they did at least get that one decision wrong in the past. Meh lol, It was only wrong because our team made it nearly every year. No one could predict that before hand. Had it been Del State going every year I'm sure we all would've been in agreement with the administrators.
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Feb 13, 2020 11:59:36 GMT -5
Side non-issue:
Has Alcorn State seen an increase in their enrollment as a result of being in the bowl? Or is it a case of the victors getting all the spoils?
Does anybody know why we (and Hampton) voted against the bowl and if any other teams were against it?
|
|
|
Post by outsidethinker on Feb 13, 2020 12:32:00 GMT -5
Would people be in this type of uproar if we made this move when were were like 0 and ten thousand in football? Would we have been the MEAC flagship then? Would we be exploiting or using our HBCUs then? Basketball was bad, football was bad. We were not the flagship anything except track was on the rise and maybe women bball. i didn't think it was a problem when morgan state, nccu, umes, and famu previously left because none of those departures jeopardized the future of the meac. nor did hampton leaving, wssu leaving, or ssu leaving. and no, i do not believe had we left while in the midst of our "worst days" as an athletic department that it would've caused the future of the meac (at that time) to be uncertain primarily because we weren't contributing "jack" to the meac at that time anyway, the application fee for d2 hbcu's was still very "affordable" which means other d2 hbcu's could've been invited to join the meac, and our attendance at the meac tournament was "minimal" due to our pathetic men's basketball team at that time. so to answer your question, had we left back then, no it would not have had the same devastating effect that it has now. but i still would not have advocated leaving the meac back then unless it was to drop back down to the ciaa because we were not competitive in any sports except wbb. and to be clear, i would not have advocated dropping down to d2 during our dire days... So per your statements if we left when we were trash the MEAC would've been ok. My question then is who was our flagship institution back then that provided the lifeline for the MEAC? Famu, NCCU, Howard or Morgan I feel can step in immediately where we left off and keep the MEAC stagnant forever as it's always been lol. You made a good point when asking what was it specifically that the MEAC did to earn such a bad reputation. You then followed up with an even better statement putting the responsibility back on the individual Institutions. Touche sir, however when trying to align our goals with all the other participating Universities how are they similar now vs 30/20/10 years ago and 5/10/15 years in the future? With whatever we're trying to accomplish in the future have you seen any other 2020 and beyond plans released from the participating MEAC members? Are their goals and the MEACs current set up made to align with and foster our needs going forward? If we're serious about increasing diversity across all athletic sports I'm sure you know by now that wont happen in the MEAC. How many non-African American students do you think want to play for us and become BLACK national champions? Lol. Our conference is representative of all the member Institutions and right now everything has the appearance of "Guilty by Association" more so than "Strength by Numbers".
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Feb 13, 2020 12:37:10 GMT -5
My thinking (take that with the tiniest grain of salt you can find) is that it belittles the conference and makes us appear arrogant as hell by presupposing it cannot survive without us.
Yes they appear to have no plan right now. But I'm sure they weren't blindsided by the announcement and with one less school to share the bowl money with they could make a move like the one I suggested a few pages back regarding coaxing Virginia State to join.
|
|
oleschoolaggie
Official BDF member
2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
|
Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 13, 2020 13:12:34 GMT -5
i didn't think it was a problem when morgan state, nccu, umes, and famu previously left because none of those departures jeopardized the future of the meac. nor did hampton leaving, wssu leaving, or ssu leaving. and no, i do not believe had we left while in the midst of our "worst days" as an athletic department that it would've caused the future of the meac (at that time) to be uncertain primarily because we weren't contributing "jack" to the meac at that time anyway, the application fee for d2 hbcu's was still very "affordable" which means other d2 hbcu's could've been invited to join the meac, and our attendance at the meac tournament was "minimal" due to our pathetic men's basketball team at that time. so to answer your question, had we left back then, no it would not have had the same devastating effect that it has now. but i still would not have advocated leaving the meac back then unless it was to drop back down to the ciaa because we were not competitive in any sports except wbb. and to be clear, i would not have advocated dropping down to d2 during our dire days... So per your statements if we left when we were trash the MEAC would've been ok. My question then is who was our flagship institution back then that provided the lifeline for the MEAC? Famu, NCCU, Howard or Morgan I feel can step in immediately where we left off and keep the MEAC stagnant forever as it's always been lol. You made a good point when asking what was it specifically that the MEAC did to earn such a bad reputation. You then followed up with an even better statement putting the responsibility back on the individual Institutions. Touche sir, however when trying to align our goals with all the other participating Universities how are they similar now vs 30/20/10 years ago and 5/10/15 years in the future? With whatever we're trying to accomplish in the future have you seen any other 2020 and beyond plans released from the participating MEAC members? Are their goals and the MEACs current set up made to align with and foster our needs going forward? If we're serious about increasing diversity across all athletic sports I'm sure you know by now that wont happen in the MEAC. How many non-African American students do you think want to play for us and become BLACK national champions? Lol. Our conference is representative of all the member Institutions and right now everything has the appearance of "Guilty by Association" more so than "Strength by Numbers". had we left when we were (your term) "trash", the meac had plenty of more options than it does now. you're forgetting that "back then", the application fee to transition from d2 to d1 was "peanuts" compared to the $1 million application fee that exists now. the meac would've had a far better chance back then of attracting another "d2 hbcu", whereas today its virtually "impossible" and that's a big difference between "back then" and "now". didn't matter who our "flagship" institution was back then, no one school leaving the conference would've jeopardized the existence of the meac at that time. you seem to be ignoring that fact. famu cannot replace what we've been bringing to the meac over the last 5 or 6 years, besides they could be leaving too. also, their location is one of the reasons travel is difficult in the meac. our location sits smack dabb "in the middle" of the meac geographical footprint, which makes our location amongst the most "travel friendly" locations in the meac, famu is just the "opposite" in that regard. nccu can't replace us, nor can morgan state. howard has the "potential" to replace us, but their administration will assure that won't happen. i never asked what the meac did to deserve a bad reputation, those are your words not mine. what i asked was what are the so called "insurmountable" problems that the meac has that made it essential that we leave the meac, that was my question that no one has answered yet. and why does our goals as an athletic department have to align with the goals of every school in the meac? i can tell you right now that our goals don't align with every school in the big south either. so i don't see your point in that regard. and since when has "diversity" been so important to a&t that we no longer want to be a predominantly african american university? who says we don't want to embrace our history as an hbcu? i don't agree with that priority because if so, we may as well go ahead and "merge" with uncg! heck, that'll solve that "perceived" problem that doesn't exist...
|
|
|
Post by outsidethinker on Feb 13, 2020 14:12:52 GMT -5
had we left when we were (your term) "trash", the meac had plenty of more options than it does now. you're forgetting that "back then", the application fee to transition from d2 to d1 was "peanuts" compared to the $1 million application fee that exists now. the meac would've had a far better chance back then of attracting another "d2 hbcu", whereas today its virtually "impossible" and that's a big difference between "back then" and "now". didn't matter who our "flagship" institution was back then, no one school leaving the conference would've jeopardized the existence of the meac at that time. you seem to be ignoring that fact. I use the term trash because we had to throw away everything and just start over. Regardless of the application fee increase none of the D2 HBCUs truly have the budget to sustain successfully at the D1 level. The MEAC clearly failed twice with giving WSSU and Savanah St the chance along with our current members struggling to maintain their status. You say that "no one school leaving the conference at that time would've jeopardized the existence of the MEAC". The MEAC operated with just 7 members during start up. Even with our departure they are still 4 Universities larger than they started. If anything were to go down hill with the MEAC would it be our fault or all the Universities in bad standing fault? famu cannot replace what we've been bringing to the meac over the last 5 or 6 years, besides they could be leaving too. also, their location is one of the reasons travel is difficult in the meac. our location sits smack dabb "in the middle" of the meac geographical footprint, which makes our location amongst the most "travel friendly" locations in the meac, famu is just the "opposite" in that regard. nccu can't replace us, nor can morgan state. howard has the "potential" to replace us, but their administration will assure that won't happen. i never asked what the meac did to deserve a bad reputation, those are your words not mine. what i asked was what are the so called "insurmountable" problems that the meac has that made it essential that we leave the meac, that was my question that no one has answered yet. Don't get me wrong I don't like Famu, but I feel you're selling them short. I see them making a lot of noise next season and going forward just hopefully not against us again. We agree with Howard and I wouldn't sell NCCU short. Their fist few years they were making quite a name for themselves. Referencing "travel friendly" we're 55 miles west of NCCU, the relative distance between us for travel from the other MEAC members is negligible. I agree with you on Famu location, I guess they should leave too lol and why does our goals as an athletic department have to align with the goals of every school in the meac? i can tell you right now that our goals don't align with every school in the big south either. so i don't see your point in that regard. You're correct, our athletic department goals don't have to align with the goals of our other MEAC members and they obviously don't; probably another reason for us leaving lol...……...and since when has "diversity" been so important to a&t that we no longer want to be a predominantly african american university? who says we don't want to embrace our history as an hbcu? i don't agree with that priority because if so, we may as well go ahead and "merge" with uncg! heck, that'll solve that "perceived" problem that doesn't exist... You took that comment to the extreme, we will always be an HBCU and embrace our culture. I'm sure you moved out the "hood" to a nicer area after experiencing some success. That doesn't change what you were born as and how you were raised even if your dating Becky for now with unlimited growth potential lol(Don't take the last part serious). Diversifying I feel you only associate one color with as oppose to recognizing there's more than just one color we'll easily identify better with as a minority University...…..I'm glad we never invited Michael Jackson for an Alumni GHOE concert, only his brothers would've made it on stage lol.
|
|
oleschoolaggie
Official BDF member
2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
|
Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 13, 2020 16:41:55 GMT -5
had we left when we were (your term) "trash", the meac had plenty of more options than it does now. you're forgetting that "back then", the application fee to transition from d2 to d1 was "peanuts" compared to the $1 million application fee that exists now. the meac would've had a far better chance back then of attracting another "d2 hbcu", whereas today its virtually "impossible" and that's a big difference between "back then" and "now". didn't matter who our "flagship" institution was back then, no one school leaving the conference would've jeopardized the existence of the meac at that time. you seem to be ignoring that fact. I use the term trash because we had to throw away everything and just start over. Regardless of the application fee increase none of the D2 HBCUs truly have the budget to sustain successfully at the D1 level. The MEAC clearly failed twice with giving WSSU and Savanah St the chance along with our current members struggling to maintain their status. You say that "no one school leaving the conference at that time would've jeopardized the existence of the MEAC". The MEAC operated with just 7 members during start up. Even with our departure they are still 4 Universities larger than they started. If anything were to go down hill with the MEAC would it be our fault or all the Universities in bad standing fault? never said it would be our fault "alone" if the meac collapses. i stated that we would contribute to "or" possibly cause the meac to collapse by us leaving. as i stated, right now a&t is the glue that holds the meac together regardless of any other institution leaving because we're strong in virtually every sport and we're "centrally located" unlike famu/bcu and dsu. as long as there are at least 7 football playing schools in the meac that includes a&t, the meac ain't going nowhere regardless of who the other 6 teams are.famu cannot replace what we've been bringing to the meac over the last 5 or 6 years, besides they could be leaving too. also, their location is one of the reasons travel is difficult in the meac. our location sits smack dabb "in the middle" of the meac geographical footprint, which makes our location amongst the most "travel friendly" locations in the meac, famu is just the "opposite" in that regard. nccu can't replace us, nor can morgan state. howard has the "potential" to replace us, but their administration will assure that won't happen. i never asked what the meac did to deserve a bad reputation, those are your words not mine. what i asked was what are the so called "insurmountable" problems that the meac has that made it essential that we leave the meac, that was my question that no one has answered yet. Don't get me wrong I don't like Famu, but I feel you're selling them short. I see them making a lot of noise next season and going forward just hopefully not against us again. We agree with Howard and I wouldn't sell NCCU short. Their fist few years they were making quite a name for themselves. Referencing "travel friendly" we're 55 miles west of NCCU, the relative distance between us for travel from the other MEAC members is negligible. I agree with you on Famu location, I guess they should leave too lol "psychologically" and realistically, a&t leaving has far more significant impact than nccu leaving because #1 - a&t has a better overall athletic program than nccu, we're strong in virtually every meac sport whereas central is currently only strong in men's basketball and nearly "nothing else". #2 - a&t has a larger fanbase than nccu. #3 - nccu only "recently" returned to the meac, them leaving would not feel unfamiliar to current meac members because nccu has been "absent" for many years prior to returning, whereas a&t has been "stable" in the meac ever since the meac was founded. our departure is more "unconfortable" and very unfamiliar to the rest of the meac. nccu cannot replace us!and why does our goals as an athletic department have to align with the goals of every school in the meac? i can tell you right now that our goals don't align with every school in the big south either. so i don't see your point in that regard. You're correct, our athletic department goals don't have to align with the goals of our other MEAC members and they obviously don't; probably another reason for us leaving lol...……...well, guess what? our athletic department goals don't align with the goals of most other "big south conference" members either! and why should that even matter? the goals of other schools has "zero" impact on our ability to pursue our goals. what schools in the meac stopped us from building a "top 8" division 1 track program? did coppin hold us back? did dsu hold us back? did umes hold us back? who da hail held us back?and since when has "diversity" been so important to a&t that we no longer want to be a predominantly african american university? who says we don't want to embrace our history as an hbcu? i don't agree with that priority because if so, we may as well go ahead and "merge" with uncg! heck, that'll solve that "perceived" problem that doesn't exist... You took that comment to the extreme, we will always be an HBCU and embrace our culture. I'm sure you moved out the "hood" to a nicer area after experiencing some success. That doesn't change what you were born as and how you were raised even if your dating Becky for now with unlimited growth potential lol(Don't take the last part serious). Diversifying I feel you only associate one color with as oppose to recognizing there's more than just one color we'll easily identify better with as a minority University...…..I'm glad we never invited Michael Jackson for an Alumni GHOE concert, only his brothers would've made it on stage lol. well, we already are "diverse". we have more white players on our football team than i can ever remember us ever having. and have you seen our baseball team lately? i counted (based on appearance) at least 15 players on our baseball team are "white" and i don't have a problem with that. but how much more diverse do you want? darn near "half" our baseball team is "white". dude, go take a look at our "golf" teams! almost "half" our rosters are non-african american. take a look at our tennis teams, same thing! bowling team? same thing! dude, how much more diversity do we need? over half?hey, this color coding thing is pretty cool!!
|
|
|
Post by Bornthrilla on Feb 13, 2020 16:48:46 GMT -5
What the hell.
Who gave oleschool the box of crayons? First the quotation marks and now this ...
|
|
oleschoolaggie
Official BDF member
2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
|
Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 13, 2020 17:24:37 GMT -5
What the hell. Who gave oleschool the box of crayons? First the quotation marks and now this ... lol, at least we're using our school colors...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 17:42:13 GMT -5
What the hell. Who gave oleschool the box of crayons? First the quotation marks and now this ... lol, at least we're using our school colors... That gold isn’t yellow enough.
|
|
oleschoolaggie
Official BDF member
2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
|
Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 13, 2020 17:44:12 GMT -5
lol, at least we're using our school colors... That gold isn’t yellow enough. i tried to make it darker so that it would be easier to read but even when its darker, its still not easy to read...
|
|
|
Post by outsidethinker on Feb 13, 2020 20:10:30 GMT -5
That gold isn’t yellow enough. i tried to make it darker so that it would be easier to read but even when its darker, its still not easy to read... Looks good to me lol
|
|
|
Post by 4XLAGGIE on Feb 14, 2020 9:30:26 GMT -5
Side non-issue: Has Alcorn State seen an increase in their enrollment as a result of being in the bowl? Or is it a case of the victors getting all the spoils? Does anybody know why we (and Hampton) voted against the bowl and if any other teams were against it? If I'm not mistaken, the original concept for the bowl was discussed in 2008 or 09. It was voted down pretty much because the payout at the time was less than 300k and the majority of AD's listened to their coaches wanting to shoot for the playoffs. Alcorn's enrollment has not increased as a result of the bowl, but they have still managed to get some pretty decent players. JMHO...
|
|
oleschoolaggie
Official BDF member
2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
|
Post by oleschoolaggie on Feb 14, 2020 10:16:29 GMT -5
yeah, i doubt that the "loser" of the celebration bowl would get the same "bump" in enrollment applications as the "winner". kinda reminds me of those buffalo bills teams in the early 90's that went to "4 straight super bowls" and loss every single one of them. no one hardly remembers that buffalo bills team because they loss 4 straight super bowls, most folk don't remember the "runner up" nearly as much as the "winners".
i think alcorn having participated in 3 out of 5 celebration bowls but never winning a celebration bowl has the same effect as the buffalo bills losing 4 straight super bowls...
|
|
|
Post by DOOMS on Feb 15, 2020 11:39:40 GMT -5
|
|