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Post by DOOMS on Jan 8, 2015 14:55:08 GMT -5
I wonder Coach Broadways position on al this. I would bet he would not want to stick around as a DII coach. Terrell Robinson either If their pay doesn't change then what's the issue?
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 8, 2015 15:24:04 GMT -5
found this info on the sun belt conference. talk about the haves and the have nots...
The highest revenue-producing schools in the Sun Belt Conference are well below the average for the Mountain West and Conference USA. The bottom two in the Sun Belt aren’t even generating half what the top producers in the conference are bringing in. Showing once again that the have and have not complex is not just between AQ and non-AQ schools but also within those divisions and within conferences.
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Post by ohsixrain on Jan 8, 2015 15:33:13 GMT -5
Well then you make my argument...the mid majors such as: Troy, Army, Navy & Bowling Green do not have the same financial resources as your BCS teams. So, why would one think they'd stand any chance against a Ohio State, Alabama or Texas. I thought you mentioned Wake Forest, which is a BCS, while they may not have the same financial resources as Ohio State and others they have enough to actually compete on a level playing field. Even your mid majors can't...Again, that's the equivilent of a punch-drunk boxer trying to fight Floyd Mayweather for the belt. Not even close. It's a reason they are mid majors vs. BCS conferences. At least on some level they do try and align the conferences as such. Now, as far as FCS level, you have nothing to distinguish a mid-level FCS vs. a power FCS school. Everybody is in the same pond swimming with the big fish and you hope you don't cross that big fish's path...that's what it amounts to. Seems more like hoping for a pipe dream rather than actually being able to control your own destiny.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 8, 2015 15:50:12 GMT -5
Well then you make my argument...the mid majors such as: Troy, Army, Navy & Bowling Green do not have the same financial resources as your BCS teams. So, why would one think they'd stand any chance against a Ohio State, Alabama or Texas. I thought you mentioned Wake Forest, which is a BCS, while they may not have the same financial resources as Ohio State and others they have enough to actually compete on a level playing field. Even your mid majors can't...Again, that's the equivilent of a punch-drunk boxer trying to fight Floyd Mayweather for the belt. Not even close. It's a reason they are mid majors vs. BCS conferences. At least on some level they do try and align the conferences as such. Now, as far as FCS level, you have nothing to distinguish a mid-level FCS vs. a power FCS school. Everybody is in the same pond swimming with the big fish and you hope you don't cross that big fish's path...that's what it amounts to. Seems more like hoping for a pipe dream rather than actually being able to control your own destiny. ohsix, midmajors is not an official ncaa classification. they all are fbs schools and they all are competing for the same ncaa division 1 championship. bcs is also not an official ncaa classification either, just like hbcu is not. everybody at the fbs level competes for the same ncaa championship just like everybody at the fcs level competes for the same ncaa championship, except for those who exclude themselves. in the eyes of the ncaa, troy and bowling green is no different than texas or ohio state when it comes to an ncaa national championship. they all compete in the same classification, there is no midmajor championship. you can't separate the so called "midmajors" from the bcs schools no more than the ncaa separating hbcu's from all other fcs pwc's. and as far as wake forest goes, they do not have the resources to compete on the same level as alabama or ohio state. no way in hail wake forest can match the facilities that texas has and that's a major reason why they'll most likely never win a national championship in football. comparing wake forest's facilities to texas' is like comparing our facilities to north dakota state...
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Post by thefriscotxaggie on Jan 8, 2015 17:15:47 GMT -5
But Wake has been a Ranked Top 25 Team. The Wake team of a couple years ago would have cleaned the current Texas teams clock.. I see what ohsixrian is saying while we donnt expect Wake to win a National title they can compete. Based on that maybe Wake should move down to FCS and dominate...LOL
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Jan 8, 2015 19:12:45 GMT -5
Well then you make my argument...the mid majors such as: Troy, Army, Navy & Bowling Green do not have the same financial resources as your BCS teams. So, why would one think they'd stand any chance against a Ohio State, Alabama or Texas. I thought you mentioned Wake Forest, which is a BCS, while they may not have the same financial resources as Ohio State and others they have enough to actually compete on a level playing field. Even your mid majors can't...Again, that's the equivilent of a punch-drunk boxer trying to fight Floyd Mayweather for the belt. Not even close. It's a reason they are mid majors vs. BCS conferences. At least on some level they do try and align the conferences as such. Now, as far as FCS level, you have nothing to distinguish a mid-level FCS vs. a power FCS school. Everybody is in the same pond swimming with the big fish and you hope you don't cross that big fish's path...that's what it amounts to. Seems more like hoping for a pipe dream rather than actually being able to control your own destiny. Rain you can not including the service academy's because there resources funding are under a different system that is paid for by the Tax payers . They also have different requirements for there student athletes . Resource wise the service academy's can match up with any of your big 5 conference schools.
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Post by DOOMS on Jan 9, 2015 7:39:44 GMT -5
Point of order:
Wake Forest has a one billion dollar endowment. Oregon has a 522 million dollar endowment.
North Dakota State has a 103 million dollar endowment.
Illinois State has an 88.4 million dollar endowment.
Elon has a 154 million dollar endowment.
Coastal Carolina has a mere 25 million dollar endowment. Of course they also have a head coach who could write a check and double that at his whim. And it was 17 million a few years ago.
We have an endowment at about 30 million.
in D-2
Grand Valley State has a 100 million dollar endowment.
Lenoir Rhyne has a 54 million dollar endowment.
Carson-Newman has a 49 million dollar endowment.
WSSU has about a 20 million dollar endowment.
Pittsburg State has a 73 million dollar endowment.
Let's not get lost in this thing. Athletics is a "front porch" at best and a sideshow in reality. I've stated it before and I'll state it again, we are already a d-2 institution in funding, endowment, and enrollment. We'd be best served cooking the whole hog.
I find it interesting that people are on here insulting d-2 like it's any worse than fcs when the fact is if Ayantee wasn't fcs the same folk wouldn't know nor care a thing about fcs either.
WINNING generates interest, not classification. If we won big, we'd generate big interest. And we are savvy enough to know how to build on that interest (unlike our neighbors to the west who have only parlayed it into decent local coverage).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 8:20:07 GMT -5
Many of our Peer institutions are Division-One schools and our Preeminence 2020 initiative is looking to increase enrollment, research dollars and increase our reach and profile.
I don't know if Division-2 fits our new initiative but Dooms has great points though.
Also, Dooms has been harping this solution for almost 8 years now.
Wow...
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Jan 9, 2015 8:52:24 GMT -5
I wonder Coach Broadways position on al this. I would bet he would not want to stick around as a DII coach. Terrell Robinson either If their pay doesn't change then what's the issue? It's not always about the money... a lot of the time, yes.... but not always....
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 9, 2015 8:54:17 GMT -5
i also think going div2 effects your associations from a mental aspect as well. I'd rather be associated with Howard, Hampton, and the MEAC schools than Shaw, St Aug, etc, etc. It's more than just sports for me, but unfortunately the sports conferences is how the general public associates its universities. Talk to your white counter parts and you will get that vibe of what I'm talking about. My coworker was trying to understand the difference between Div2 and FCS. After wasting 5 minutes explaining it to him, his dumb azz walked away with the following conclusion because it was the simplest of him to understand without hurting his small brain. "So, if a team has a city name in front of it like Fayetteville, Winston, etc then they are probably D2 and if a team has a state name in front of it they are probably FCS right?" It was the dumbest sheeet I ever heard, but it was actually almost 100% correct if you take the private schools out of the equation. He went to Clemson by the way.
My point is that no one gives a damn outside of us. I have plenty of FBS grads as coworkers and friends and they truly dont give a damn about anything other than FBS. So BACK to my original reason I started this thread. We are in a bubble and we need to make the best out of that bubble. If we want to be profitable and serve our kids and communities as best we can we need to change what we are doing. The FCS playoffs are a waste of time and energy for such little reward in my opinion. But going down to D2 doesn't solve that in my opinion. It will stay the same way, just at a lower level.
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Jan 9, 2015 9:04:40 GMT -5
Many of our Peer institutions are Division-One schools and our Preeminence 2020 initiative is looking to increase enrollment, research dollars and increase our reach and profile. I don't know if Division-2 fits our new initiative but Dooms has great points though. Also, Dooms has been harping this solution for almost 8 years now. Wow... I'm with Doom on this. I have stated this before that we tend to under estimate D 2 athletic's. I can not Speak on the The D 2 programs back home but I can say this about D 2 Football/ Basketball sport's engenral in the Southwest. Their Top teams can match up with any team in the MEAC $ for $ and athlete for athlete.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 9, 2015 9:23:17 GMT -5
I'm with Doom on this. I have stated this before that we tend to under estimate D 2 athletic's. I can not Speak on the The D 2 programs back home but I can say this about D 2 Football/ Basketball sport's engenral in the Southwest. Their Top teams can match up with any team in the MEAC $ for $ and athlete for athlete. Your right, You CANT SPEAK for D2 hear. Not even close. Mainly because in the South West they have less schools and no HBCUs. Div2 football here for the most part cant match up. Lets analyze the CIAA vs the MEAC. Basketball maybe, sure they could match up with the MEAC. The MEAC cant put out a decent mid-major like Butler, etc... They would get SLAUGHTERED in football. The MEAC might lose one game and that depends on who the best CIAA teams would play. If they matched up based on this years finishing positions the CIAA would not win a game. WSSU would be there only hope. Only 3 teams in the CIAA had winning records overall. Meac would also slaughter the South Atlantic PWC conference. No way they lose to the likes of Catawba, Wingate, Newberry, Mars HIll,, and Brevard. Lenior-Rhyne could possibly beat someone with a favorable matchup.
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Post by Aggie Monster on Jan 9, 2015 10:16:44 GMT -5
I know this might not seem like an age appropriate story , but it fits. I coach pop warner. If you win the region you go to Disney for the championship playoffs. Charlotte also has Pop Warner teams. They opt out of the Pop Warner playoffs to have their own Charlotte City Championship and end their season with that. It's actually identical to our(MEAC's) new situation. They opt out because the POP Warner playoffs and Disney is a TON of money and time on your parents. Also, getting through to get to Disney is a nightmare. The teams are beastly! (Sound familar) No one in Charlotte misses it. No one. They are happy with their little City Championship. Mallard Creek (charlotte team) came to Raleigh to face us for a bowl game. They were 8-0 in Charlotte and going to be in the Charlotte championship the next week. We were 6-2 and headed to the Pop Warner playoffs. So the game was strictly a warmup for our playoff run and their championship...... We beat the brakes off them. They hadn't faced a playoff ready team before because no one in their league prepares for the playoffs. But the next week they went out and won their Charlotte championship, while we got destroyed by a Tidewater area team at VA Beach in the first round of the playoffs.
Who you think enjoyed their season more.? What fans, what players? It doesn't matter. I bet they celebrated like hell win they won their championship. No more travel, season over. Lets take our trophy and go eat at Ruby Tuesday. If we had made it to the 3rd round of the playoffs and got beat instead of getting eliminated in the first round our kids nor parents would have went out and celebrated at Ruby Tuesday because of a 3rd round loss.
So I say goodbye to the playoffs with a smile.
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Jan 9, 2015 10:37:22 GMT -5
I'm with Doom on this. I have stated this before that we tend to under estimate D 2 athletic's. I can not Speak on the The D 2 programs back home but I can say this about D 2 Football/ Basketball sport's engenral in the Southwest. Their Top teams can match up with any team in the MEAC $ for $ and athlete for athlete. Your right, You CANT SPEAK for D2 hear. Not even close. Mainly because in the South West they have less schools and no HBCUs. Div2 football here for the most part cant match up. Lets analyze the CIAA vs the MEAC. Basketball maybe, sure they could match up with the MEAC. The MEAC cant put out a decent mid-major like Butler, etc... They would get SLAUGHTERED in football. The MEAC might lose one game and that depends on who the best CIAA teams would play. If they matched up based on this years finishing positions the CIAA would not win a game. WSSU would be there only hope. Only 3 teams in the CIAA had winning records overall. Meac would also slaughter the South Atlantic PWC conference. No way they lose to the likes of Catawba, Wingate, Newberry, Mars HIll,, and Brevard. Lenior-Rhyne could possibly beat someone with a favorable matchup. AM my statement was not to put the MEAC down or the schools back home. What I should have said was this. A&T and other HBCU schools Academic Value is not defined by the Division of football/ Basketball they play in as some may think on here. It is not the sport's that draw students to A&T it's there Academic program's. All sport's program's are just dressing on the cake and something for the students to do on campus that's it. As far as A&T and other HBCU schools go as too recruiting athletes HELL if they where D 2 they would still get the same type's of athletes D 2 or not THAT IS JUST THE Facts. And for some reason some of us think that because we have a D 1 Tag that it will change things NOT GOING TO HAPPEN gentlemen. Look even in D 2 you will have to have no less then 50 Mill to have winning sport's programs . A&T is in the right location to make a S--it loud of money by jumping back to D 2 ranks if they handle it right. The CIAA would be a gold mine for the AGGIES . Doom is right on point.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 9, 2015 10:38:58 GMT -5
But Wake has been a Ranked Top 25 Team. The Wake team of a couple years ago would have cleaned the current Texas teams clock.. I see what ohsixrian is saying while we donnt expect Wake to win a National title they can compete. Based on that maybe Wake should move down to FCS and dominate...LOL heck frisco, a&t has been ranked in the top 25 before too and have actually won an fcs playoff game beating the #1 ranked fcs "undefeated" team in the nation at that time in tennessee state. and, we beat 'em in nashville. hey, i'm not saying lower resource fbs schools will never be ranked or will never beat the likes of texas or alabama. anything can happen on any given saturday in college football. but my point was that those schools have little to no hope of ever winning a national championship...
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