oleschoolaggie
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2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 16, 2020 16:35:36 GMT -5
i'm cool with that, but i just don't wanna see him get "stuck" out there. its great to have a big guy who can stretch the floor and shoot the 3, but i wouldn't wanna see a big guy like that forget where he's needed the most which is "in the paint", 15 feet in... Indeed. He wants to repeat his high post spin cycle from last saturday. hey, i think a post player who is effective knocking down the 3 is a major "plus"! especially one who can run the floor like harry can. i get it that bigs nowadays wanna step out beyond the arc and fire 3's and to me, that's cool if they're good at it. harry appears to be good at it, so by all means let's take advantage of his shooting range. however, let's also don't forget where we need him the most and that's from 15 feet in. there's a reason why post players "usually" lead all shooters in field goal percentage and its because they usually take shots closer to the basket, so called "high percentage" shots. in half court play, smaller guys can't consistently take a high volume of shots that are close to the basket because its hard for them to see and shoot over most "bigs". the best way to take advantage of high percentage shots in half court play is for someone who can see and shoot over most other "bigs" to take those shots. 3 point shooting is not a "high percentage" shot. so in the half court, someone has to take the "high percentage" shots for us and the best folk to do that are our post players. so all i'm saying is yes, our post players should step outside beyond the arc to shoot 3's if they're good at it. but let's not get "stuck" out there because 3 point shooting is not a "high percentage" shot and when our bigs shoot them and misses, it takes our best "rebounders" away from the basket...
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Post by Bornthrilla on Jan 16, 2020 16:49:02 GMT -5
I think he is probably frustrated that he is not getting enough interior passes when he is on the block. At least I would be.
He always seem to get good post-up position, but our guards are late to see him and make the pass.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Jan 16, 2020 17:05:18 GMT -5
I think he is probably frustrated that he is not getting enough interior passes when he is on the block. At least I would be. He always seem to get good post-up position, but our guards are late to see him and make the pass. Are our guards "late to see him" or just ignoring him? He's a damn big target and he stands out big-time when he's down under the basket! So it's hard for me to see how they don't see him. I think our guards just aren't that comfortable with him yet. If it was me, I'd feed him until he or the guy "trying" to guarding him fouled out!
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Post by pommie on Jan 16, 2020 17:09:36 GMT -5
I think he is probably frustrated that he is not getting enough interior passes when he is on the block. At least I would be. He always seem to get good post-up position, but our guards are late to see him and make the pass. Being a post myself, albeit 6 inches shorter and 40lb heavier than Harry, i feel his frustration. However he doesn’t demand the ball which i have tried to get him to do. Once the ball is in the post D generally collapses freeing up shooters. However my masters O50 ball is somewhat slower than D1!!
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oleschoolaggie
Official BDF member
2009 Poster of the Year, 2009 Most Knowledgeable Poster
Posts: 24,161
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Jan 16, 2020 17:12:37 GMT -5
i think harry needs to get in the weight room and get "stronger" for interior post play. i've seen a few times where he lost control of the ball while in "traffic" down low and that's merely a function of lack of "strength". and that's not unusual for freshmen, the upper classmen are simply stronger than he is right now. all he needs to do is put in adequate time in the weight room, easy solution to that problem and that might be why guys are somewhat hesitant to feed it to him down low. given the proper amount of weight training, he'll "power thru" that traffic and draw fouls instead of losing control of the ball. i mean, this is an extreme, but just think about feeding the ball to "shaq" on the block. ain't a man on earth gone take that ball outta his hands! he's too strong! you slap him on the arm while he's on the way up and he won't even feel that! its an automatic "and 1". not saying harry needs to be remotely that strong, but just wanted to illustrate the point. plus, shaq can't even "buy" a darn free throw, much less a 3 point shot. so i wouldn't recommend harry over doing it in the weight room...
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Post by Bornthrilla on Jan 16, 2020 17:43:13 GMT -5
I haven't seen anything from a strength perspective to make me think he wouldn't be effective in the low post.
He looks like has a really good base and gets great position on the blocks. Only probably is, he cant do much if the pass never comes.
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Post by pommie on Jan 16, 2020 17:44:15 GMT -5
i think harry needs to get in the weight room and get "stronger" for interior post play. i've seen a few times where he lost control of the ball while in "traffic" down low and that's merely a function of lack of "strength". and that's not unusual for freshmen, the upper classmen are simply stronger than he is right now. all he needs to do is put in adequate time in the weight room, easy solution to that problem and that might be why guys are somewhat hesitant to feed it to him down low. given the proper amount of weight training, he'll "power thru" that traffic and draw fouls instead of losing control of the ball. i mean, this is an extreme, but just think about feeding the ball to "shaq" on the block. ain't a man on earth gone take that ball outta his hands! he's too strong! you slap him on the arm while he's on the way up and he won't even feel that! its an automatic "and 1". not saying harry needs to be remotely that strong, but just wanted to illustrate the point. plus, shaq can't even "buy" a darn free throw, much less a 3 point shot. so i wouldn't recommend harry over doing it in the weight room... He knows he needs to work on his strength. Hopefully it will come as the season progresses.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Jan 16, 2020 18:04:14 GMT -5
He's a freshman.....he's gonna gain weight; he's gonna get stronger. To me, I see this as a trust issue....as in, do the guards trust Harry to do something good with the ball if they enter the ball down low to him. I think he has to instill trust in his teammates that something good will happen. I think this starts by doing the right things in the post in practice. I'm not at practice, so I can't say what he is or isn't doing at that time. However, if he is effectively battling opposition down low and making the right decisions (shoot or kick it back out) in practice, that trust will be gained to where they will feel more comfortable getting him the ball down low in a game.
There have been times where he has CLEARLY established post position in some games and they just don't feed it to him. I think that's a trust issue that he will have to gain from his teammates and staff. He's a freshman, too. It also may have to do with "earning your stripes." Things will continue to turn in his favor. The talent is there....it's all about maturation.
There's no doubt Harry and Fred are the foundation of future Aggie basketball prosperity.
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Post by marchingband1969 on Jan 16, 2020 20:42:48 GMT -5
I just hope he doesn't get frustrated and transfers out. We may not see that as a big loss now but with the right coaching, he could be a good post player.
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saabman
Official BDF member
Posts: 11,768
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Post by saabman on Jan 16, 2020 21:22:19 GMT -5
He's a freshman.....he's gonna gain weight; he's gonna get stronger. To me, I see this as a trust issue....as in, do the guards trust Harry to do something good with the ball if they enter the ball down low to him. I think he has to instill trust in his teammates that something good will happen. I think this starts by doing the right things in the post in practice. I'm not at practice, so I can't say what he is or isn't doing at that time. However, if he is effectively battling opposition down low and making the right decisions (shoot or kick it back out) in practice, that trust will be gained to where they will feel more comfortable getting him the ball down low in a game. There have been times where he has CLEARLY established post position in some games and they just don't feed it to him. I think that's a trust issue that he will have to gain from his teammates and staff. He's a freshman, too. It also may have to do with "earning your stripes." Things will continue to turn in his favor. The talent is there....it's all about maturation. There's no doubt Harry and Fred are the foundation of future Aggie basketball prosperity. A big that can shoot the 3 ball can open up the Floor by forcing or pulling the oppositions post player away from the basket . Opening up penetration Lanes by the guards . Look no one is saying make Harry a permanent 3-point shooter but if the kid has that talent use it . This thing about the guards not trusting Harry down low is BS because from what I have seen Harry is not the only block biggs that is not receiving the ball after establishing positions a round the basket . Even in a up tempo system your facilitators need to do just that and it is not happening on time . Harry and Fred both had a mismatches deep in the lane but the guard wouldn't give the ball up . They continue dribbling too damn much at times and have trouble recognizing and reacting to mismatches in the lane and around the basket . Freshman or not if the big is open down low especially in a mismatch give up the damn ball that not trust that's incompetence also guards should be able to hit the mid range high percentage shots and stop standing outside of the three-point arc waiting to launch a shot .
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Post by lenman1 on Jan 16, 2020 21:37:49 GMT -5
Thank you marchingband1969 for the wisest warning put on this post. Kids like Morrice come along once in a blue moon i.e. 7 foot freshman who can shoot and rebound and both Joyner and now Jones have done a poor job of developing the kid and giving him confidence. Morrice played 8 minutes against a terrible 2-15 Deleware State team, which was just ridiculous. The few turnovers I have seen Morrice commit may be a strength issue but it is also a confidence issue. Kids have to play through mistakes and not look over their shoulder everytime they lose the ball. Hell if that is the case with damn near 50 turnovers Langley would stay on the bench (I know he is the favorite son and looks good against scrub MEAC squads). The problem with this program and Joyner in particular is that he has a team with favorites, no standards and no direction or plan on how you build a program. Renting 1 year transfers like Haygood (unless they got Zion type game) hurts your program when they take away valuable playing time from your younger players. Ronald Jackson is another story because he is clearly the best player on the squad and is a legit athlete. Imagine a squad two years from now with experienced juniors like Morrice, Cleveland, a D-1 legit point guard like Blake Harris, Ty Lyons and one or two other 3 star recruits, you have a team that can not only dominate the MEAC but be competitive in the play-in game or perhaps win a first round game in the NCAA tournament. That should be the goal for our program rather than just winning the regular season MEAC title.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Jan 16, 2020 21:45:21 GMT -5
We can agree to disagree on this one, saabman. Incompetence, trust, etc. Whatever you see or believe, that's fine. I do believe there is a trust issue. Is that the only issue factoring into this - likely not. I do think the more playing time he gets, the more comfortable his teammates will be with him on the floor. Up until 3 weeks ago, he was barely getting ANY CLOCK for any of us to even know he could shoot. It's still early in the regular season. I'm willing to see how all of this pans out.
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Post by aggieblackie2 on Jan 17, 2020 8:36:40 GMT -5
I am excited as all are about the emergence and transformation of our basketball team. I think our new coach is doing a great job thus far.
I am excited about our wins but I am sort of cautious for the hoopla we are displaying because all of those teams were lower tier MEAC teams that we have beaten.
I do see the talent that we have and the positive coaching change. I do believe that our winning ways will continue, but just a little bit cautious until we play the upper tier teams to see how we perform then.
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Jan 17, 2020 9:34:18 GMT -5
I am excited as all are about the emergence and transformation of our basketball team. I think our new coach is doing a great job thus far. I am excited about our wins but I am sort of cautious for the hoopla we are displaying because all of those teams were lower tier MEAC teams that we have beaten. I do see the talent that we have and the positive coaching change. I do believe that our winning ways will continue, but just a little bit cautious until we play the upper tier teams to see how we perform then. There's a lot of wisdom in that. I think the fact that this thread has gone 4 pages already for an early season MEAC game against an 0-4 squad not playing until tomorrow afternoon shows: a. How much of a basketball fan base we really are. b. The hope we now see at possibly getting to MEAC Championship #17 out of 49 years. c. The true competitive nature of Aggie Nation irregardless of circumstances. The other point of caution is that for as much potential as this squad has shown, they are by no means a finished product. And we don't want them to be. Peaking too early is really a thing. We also have to guard against being heavy-handed with the expectations for young players. I said from the beginning of the season that if Harry Morrice could give us 4 pts/4 rebounds a game as a freshman, then we're doing good. Why? Because he's a freshman, and I'd anticipate that his bigger step would be from freshman to sophomore year. That's the case with most bigs. Well... Harry's at 3.6 ppg and 2.6 rpg. And given the playing time/improvement he's shown as well as everyone's overall comfort in the new scheme, he'll likely be at 5 ppg by the end of season. And since Coppin has a 7-footer and only 10 players... we likely will see more of Harry on Saturday. I also want Fred Cleveland to be a more efficient scorer. Right now, he's a volume shooter and we love his fearlessness. I'd rather take a tough shot over a straight-up turnover because we have the possibly for an offensive rebound. But shot selection against better teams down the stretch will be important. But as others have stated... super-excited for the potential of Harry & Fred through the end of this season and 3 more seasons after that. That typed.... #BeatCoppin
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Jan 17, 2020 9:53:59 GMT -5
Side note: Coppin's attendance was 672 and 619 for its home games against SCSU and Norfolk. And their students don't return until January 25th (next weekend).
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