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Post by DOOMS on Mar 29, 2016 8:36:24 GMT -5
Imagine if Hicks had four years...
And imagine if he made it through all four injury-free. He could have very well been the top rusher in college football history.
...but I digress. I like the "make 28 a sacred number" idea as opposed to outright retiring it.
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 29, 2016 10:25:20 GMT -5
I had the same thought Dooms. If Hicks had a normal 4 years, injury free at T his record would be out of reach.
The Kid had a good year last year. Actually it was a down grade to me of the previous year performance.
He made up for it in the Celebration Bowl which made him have an above average year.
The Kid is great and I love to see him run. He is one of the best backs in the country.
It will in my mind take a great, great year by The Kid to even coming close to surpassing Elvin Bethea, Alan Hooker, Mel Phillips and a few more.
I will be glad to be wrong. If anyone can do it The Kid can.
Rags is in this conversation also.
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 29, 2016 10:33:09 GMT -5
With all due respect to Rags, he's not in the conversation. His numbers pale in comparison. Granted, he played during a different time...
Hooker's numbers should have been shattered by now as well given the way football has changed. But we haven't really thrown the ball enough (or well enough) to make that happen.
There have been a lot of guys who've had great seasons (or even record-setting seasons) but few have done it for four years. That much puts Cohen close to the top in my mind, so long as he has similar numbers this coming year.
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Post by numberonebrave on Mar 29, 2016 11:09:41 GMT -5
Backs like Basnight Mo Smith and Shuford all played together for a few seasons. White and Turner also played together ....all in the wing T did not have record setting numbers but could play
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 29, 2016 11:40:31 GMT -5
When I mentioned Rags I was not specifically talking about stats.
Rags was a small back who had speed and guts who delivered when it counted.
That is why he made it in the pros. The NFL scouts saw those qualities not necessarily stats.
Heck it has been boo coo players with great stats that don't make it in the NFL. Some were Heisman trophy winners.
Rags was more than "Stats", he was a gutty ballplayer.
Hooker was just baddddd!!
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Mar 29, 2016 11:46:27 GMT -5
i don’t think we’ve ever had a back who gained more than 1,000 yds in each of his four years. if cohen stays healthy next season, he most certainly will do that. mayhew had a chance to do it too until he found himself in coach broadway’s doghouse during his last season. albeit, mayhew redshirted his freshman year if i remember correctly while cohen gained more than a thousand as a “true freshman”.
“statistically”, cohen is easily the best rb in aggie history. doesn’t mean he’ll make the pro’s like hicks and rags did, but as far as running backs go “while playing at a&t”, he’s the best imo. mind you, he broke a&t’s all time rushing record in about 2 and a half seasons. and i don’t think he gets enough credit for his “durability”. dude doesn’t shy away from “contact” at all. matter fact, he dishes out a good deal of punishment himself despite his size.
this dude is a freak of nature! catching not one, but “two” footballs simultaneously while doing a “backflip”! shoot, if he’s not the best aggie football player ever, one most certainly can argue that he’s definitely the most “athletic”...
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 29, 2016 12:44:39 GMT -5
That's the thing. There've been any number of freaks of nature or guys who didn't do as much while at A&T but somehow made it to the next level. In the end that's not quantifiable. Stats are. If we're going by guts the best player could be anybody. We've had guys like:
Deloatch Klugh Pelshak Pee Wee Board Maynor Reggie White Craig Thompson Knox Thompson Chris McNeil Jamain Stephens Harrison Yonnick Matthews Miles Mo Smith
and a gazillion more that have been absolute hell on opposing teams. It's really close to impossible to pin "the best player even" on one cat. You can name a dude as "one of the best" and then easily name several as good or better.
But as far as steady production goes, nobody's beaten Cohen to my knowledge.
Actually, the best athlete I ever saw in an Ayantee uni never played a down for A&T. His name was Curtis Johnson I think. Like 6'4", 240 lbs., probably ran a 4.4. They tried him all over the field and eventually decided he'd play wide receiver. I remember watching him catch badly thrown passes over THREE defenders (no exaggeration) at the spring game. They couldn't stop him, but grades did. Never saw him again.
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 29, 2016 19:34:47 GMT -5
The question was "is Cohen the best player in A&T history" not the best running back in A&T history.
That is why he is "not" the best in A&T's history. It is evident that most of you never saw Elvin Bethea train or play. He was a beast for 4 straight years and athletes from the ACC and other conferences would come to just see his training techniques. He was a beast in the NFL for more than 10 years. That is why he is in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Look, I love The Kid. He is a great athlete and one of the best backs in the country. He is on par with Hicks as a back who also made the pros. If Hicks had played a full 4 years his stats would be unreachable.
Who is the best football player in T's history? Each era had its own.
Mel Phillips played both ways at A&T. He was a great running back and a great defensive back. He played free safety with the 49ers for 10 or more years.
How many players have the ability to play both ways now days and be super on both sides?
Who "is" the best in our history?
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Mar 29, 2016 20:50:04 GMT -5
No the ? was "Will anybody wear the number 28 jersey after next year" not if the (The Kid) was the best Football player in A&T's history ?
J.D. Smith Played both ways at T Also and 11 years in the show. But playing both ways was the norm back then. He also ran Track. Tom Day was a good athlete also.
Now if the ? was " "Is Cohen the best running back in A&T history" I would have to say a Big YES his numbers prove that! But to be Truthful Bob Beamon may have been the best All a round athlete ever to set foot on A&T's campus. But that's not the ? Bob Beamon could play anything and make it look easy!
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Post by aggieblackie on Mar 29, 2016 23:47:43 GMT -5
Saabman you are correct about what the question was. However, the subject turned when "Aggie 31" asked "is Cohen the best player in A&T history". That is when the subject got deep about who is the best player in A&T history is or was.
I knew Bob Beamon and had several classes with him my freshman year at A&T. He was a great all round athlete who broke the long jump record in the 1968 Olympics. Of course the white man stole him from T because he had so much talent. I don't think and as a matter of fact I know from observations that he was not the all around best athlete to perform at A&T.
The best all around player that I know and observed was Daryl Cherry from West Charlotte High School. When he graduated from high school he was offered a pro scholarship to play baseball and he turned it down to come to T. At T he excelled in 4 sports - basketball, football, baseball and track.
He could shoot his butt off in basketball and often scored in the high 20's and 30's. In football he had blazing speed and great hands. He was good enough to make the Dallas Cowboys team and played for Tom Landry. He excelled in baseball and track and had blazing speed. Beamon was great but could not compare to Darryl Cherry. You better ask somebody.
Darryl Cherry could play anything and make it look even easier.
You make it seem that stats is the only criteria for being great. It has its due, but there are other factors to consider also.
To me HOF, Hall Of Fame Aggie Elvin Bethea is the best ever to play football at A&T. I saw him and witnessed him play. He played with Darryl Cherry also for two years. Both were great.
I am through with it!!
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saabman
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Post by saabman on Mar 30, 2016 8:30:48 GMT -5
Thank you for reminding me of Darryl Cherry and I must say that you or Right on all points! Being truthful D. Cherry was the best all around Athlete in Aggie History and that came from Mr. Bethea him self. Yes I know Elvin Bethea, I use to work out with him when he would come home in the summer at A&T in the old Field House, Elvin had his own key..lol I really enjoyed talking with Mr. Bethea . He also played with Barnhill from West Charlotte High School. "You make it seem that stats is the only criteria for being great" No I did not say that, I said "Now if the ? was " "Is Cohen the best running back in A&T history" I would have to say a Big YES his numbers prove that!" That is not saying that he is the best ever to play football at A&T ! But his numbers stand far, far apart from any other RB that have played for Tee “statistically” and he is also a Humble and fine Ambassador when it comes to Representing the Aggie Brand. Best RB yes. Best ever to play at T ?
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 30, 2016 9:21:28 GMT -5
Are Cohen's numbers over any two year stretch better than Hicks' two years? I'm not sure but I don't think they have been to date. Remember, Hicks set a division I game record for yards. He was our all-time leading rusher until Iron Mike (I think) and he didn't even play two full years. That is pretty amazing.
I'm just sayin...
Of course then you have to factor in the fact that Hicks was the workhorse and the offense ran through him, period. Cohen's been a piece (the main piece at times, but not always) of the offensive puzzle.
Ultimately I'm still not sure if Cohen's the outright "best" rb to play at T. Again, it comes down to how you quantify "best." Stats are the easiest way, but then do you go by one year, two years, or career? Do you include ability to catch the ball? Blocking? So many ways to quantify it.
I can say he's been head and shoulders above any back since Hicks. Depending on how you quantify "best" he may be better than Hicks...
Is he good enough to retire that jersey? Doubt it, but this season has yet to be played.
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Gator
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Post by Gator on Mar 30, 2016 9:29:50 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this kid has achieved more and has more accolades than any other athlete to ever participate in Athletics at A&T, right?
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Post by DOOMS on Mar 30, 2016 9:51:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure he's up there. At least as far as school accolades. I don't know about national honors.
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Mar 30, 2016 9:51:32 GMT -5
to me, comparing cohen to hicks is like comparing barry sanders to walter peyton. cohen does some things that hicks could never dream of doing and hicks has done some things that cohen could never dream of doing. that’s because they’re two different types of backs, just like barry sanders and walter peyton were two different types of backs. actually you can’t go wrong with either one of them, but hicks was a “bigger” and more powerful back than cohen, while cohen is a much “faster” and more agile back than hicks.
if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to choose between the two, i’d have to give the slight edge cohen. others may disagree, but i think cohen is more of a “game changer” than hicks and this past season cohen had to run behind a subpar o-line. plus, cohen can take it to the house and will take it to the house from “anywhere” on the doggone football field and i have yet to see anybody catch him from behind. that’s why i give the slight edge to cohen. dude is a "game breaker"! don't believe me, just ask alcorn state about that...
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