saabman
Official BDF member
Posts: 11,781
|
Post by saabman on Feb 17, 2015 1:48:18 GMT -5
Man I believe you and I are the only ones on this site that think like this. I have a fairly good grasp of finance and budgets and I cannot figure out why it's so important for us to stay in the FCS. Other than the few PWI football programs that have hosted and won the championship, everybody else looses money. I'm with you...let's try something else! No MEAC school is leaving FCS, cause if we do that's no march madness and none of that money that comes every yr. If we go DII then we lose that income. Now i'm all for Division II but leadership ain't going for it That is a point . I say take the bowl money and ride this thing out.
|
|
DECKS
Official BDF member
2008 Poster of the Year
Charter Member of the BDF
Posts: 10,401
|
Post by DECKS on Feb 17, 2015 7:52:25 GMT -5
In a December radio interview discussing the proposed bowl game SWAC commissioner, Duer Sharp said the SWAC does not participate in the playoffs.
Sent from my SM-N910P using proboards
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 7:52:22 GMT -5
A number of SWAC teams have been in the playoffs not to long a go UAPB ,PVSU and TSU to name a few. GSU and SU may not have but other SWAC teams have. Must have been prior to 2002. I can't recall any swac team participating in the playoffs after that. Even the few Prairie view teams that Frazier had didn't get at-large bids. Many say it was due to their resume. They had 0 quality wins and didn't play anyone of "merit" that year, which was 2010 (I think) If we scheduled strongly and won those games, we would be in the conversation for an At-Large spot, if we do not win the conference, which we likely will. With our schedule, we would need to go 9-2 to have any hope of being granted an at-large bid. I don't think it's "politics" more-so than we needing to realize that the MEAC & SWAC are bottom-feeders of this FCS thing and the AQ is a way to give the champs of any participating FCS Division a [small] shot to win it all.
|
|
|
Post by 4XLAGGIE on Feb 17, 2015 8:21:18 GMT -5
WCA, I was on that committee for a year and I can't tell you how many "meetings before the meeting" took place. You vote for me I'll vote for you, from a conference point of view, etc... etc... Maybe it's changed. Just my experience.
|
|
DECKS
Official BDF member
2008 Poster of the Year
Charter Member of the BDF
Posts: 10,401
|
Post by DECKS on Feb 17, 2015 8:22:20 GMT -5
Why are we so high strung is my question? We(MEAC) hasn't won a playoff game in ages. AGES!!!!! And now that we have a chance at winning the MEAC and participating again us Aggies are all up in arms about playing in this bowl game instead of going to the playoffs. This argument is laughable. If we were SCSU, then the argument MIGHT make sense. If we were a Jenkins lead BCU the argument MIGHT make sense. Some would even say that since they couldn't win in all those tries that even their arguments would be laughable. Cause all that ruckus just to take an azz whipping and lose money in the process? LOL Yall are killing me, LOL, LOL, LOL I needed this laugh tonight. Play in the damn bowl if we win it. Shoot, first we got to win it and not "crap" like we did this pass season. Man I believe you and I are the only ones on this site that think like this. I have a fairly good grasp of finance and budgets and I cannot figure out why it's so important for us to stay in the FCS. Other than the few PWI football programs that have hosted and won the championship, everybody else looses money. I'm with you...let's try something else! You guys are sadly mistaken if you think the participant schools will make any money from this bowl game. The conference office will make money but thats the only guarantee. The participants are more likely to lose money unless the conference guarantees a subsidy. Each school is to receive $200k which will likely be eaten up in unsold ticket allotments and travel expenses. Most teams in these lower level bowls do not make money because they don't sell enough ticket. Some even lose money. Does anyone know how many tickets we sold for the Atlanta Classic or The Meac/Swac Challenge? Judging by the turnouts I'd say we fell short of target in each game. Sent from my SM-N910P using proboards
|
|
|
Post by aggierattler on Feb 17, 2015 8:29:26 GMT -5
Man I believe you and I are the only ones on this site that think like this. I have a fairly good grasp of finance and budgets and I cannot figure out why it's so important for us to stay in the FCS. Other than the few PWI football programs that have hosted and won the championship, everybody else looses money. I'm with you...let's try something else! You guys are sadly mistaken if you think the participant schools will make any money from this bowl game. The conference office will make money but thats the only guarantee. The participants are more likely to lose money unless the conference guarantees a subsidy. Each school is to receive $200k which will likely be eaten up in unsold ticket allotments and travel expenses. Most teams in these lower level bowls do not make money because they don't sell enough ticket. Some even lose money. Does anyone know how many tickets we sold for the Atlanta Classic or The Meac/Swac Challenge? Judging by the turnouts I'd say we fell short of target in each game. Sent from my SM-N910P using proboards AGREED!!! It's been spelled out time-and-time again. And that's why I was saying that we've settled for CHUMP CHANGE...which AGGIE MONSTER seems to think is some gold mine.
|
|
|
Post by noexcuses on Feb 17, 2015 8:47:59 GMT -5
they didn't, but they are responsible for the “legislative initiative” to close scsu. wow, who are you? armstrong williams? Guess you have missed the years of mismanagement down there and blatant stealing going on OldschoolAggie- whatcha think...would SCSU be in this pitiful $$$ condition IFFF Armstrong Williams had been Prezz??? Whatcha think bro ?
|
|
|
Post by Aggie Monster on Feb 17, 2015 8:47:54 GMT -5
You guys are sadly mistaken if you think the participant schools will make any money from this bowl game. The conference office will make money but thats the only guarantee. The participants are more likely to lose money unless the conference guarantees a subsidy. Each school is to receive $200k which will likely be eaten up in unsold ticket allotments and travel expenses. Most teams in these lower level bowls do not make money because they don't sell enough ticket. Some even lose money. Does anyone know how many tickets we sold for the Atlanta Classic or The Meac/Swac Challenge? Judging by the turnouts I'd say we fell short of target in each game. Sent from my SM-N910P using proboards AGREED!!! It's been spelled out time-and-time again. And that's why I was saying that we've settled for CHUMP CHANGE...which AGGIE MONSTER seems to think is some gold mine. Your kidding right? Gold mine? I never said that. I dont think either option is a gold mine, but I'd rather get some money than no money. Right now we get Zero. It aint like we lose our AQ forever if we try this out for a few years do we? I think adding one more school, dividing North/South and playing a MEAC championship game might net more money than either idea. But I guess this is what the SWAC/MEAC is. We just officially not in the same conference, so the rivalry thing isn't there. I just know getting beat down year after year in the playoffs aint making our pockets any deeper.
|
|
|
Post by marchingband1969 on Feb 17, 2015 10:22:47 GMT -5
I've seen the pros and cons about the bowls vs FCS playoffs and I've finally concluded this some folks are basing their opinions more on "emotions" rather than "financial." Let's be honest, there's very little money coming to HBCU programs with either events. Never mind the fact that we lose every year, I don't think Morgan State made any money last year in their appearance and rapid exit from the playoff. I've been around A&T for nearly 50 years and I've never heard anyone in the Athletic Department say "we got to get into the FCS playoff because of the money!" So it ain't the money. As for the proposed MEAC/SWAC Bowl, I've "heard" that ESPN is putting up $1 million dollars per conference for participation in this bowl. I don't know what the split is for the teams but that's got to be equal to the money we get from appearing in the FCS playoff. Now we can debate who gets what and who may or may not make money but let me repeat...there's very little money coming to HBCU programs from either events.
One other point, I don't think if we play the MEAC/SWAC Bowl we automatically drops us back to DII. The SWAC hasn't played in the FCS Playoff for years and I've seen their schools in the NCAA basketball tournament. Now if there's a requirement that you either play in the FCS playoff or drop back to DII, I'm sure someone on here will point that out to me.
Now let's deal with the emotional 900 pound gorilla in the room...segregation. There are some that see this change as a step back into segregation...separate but unequal. They feel that we have worked hard to go to school with whites, eat at the same lunch counter with whites and play on the same field with whites. They view dropping out of the FCS playoff as a step back to segregation. I grew up in the "segregated South" and lived through "Jim Crow" and "separate but unequal" laws so I understand that emotion. But this is about money not civil rights. We are not making money or building our athletic programs playing in the FCS football playoff. And I know its tough to admit it but we don't have the financial resources, talent, facilities or commitment to build the level of athletic program to be able to make money in the FCS football playoff. So let's remember what our (HBCU) mission is...educate students from our community. Personally I'd rather take the money it would take to fund a program that could win in the FCS playoff and use it to fund more academic scholarships rather that football facilities. For 100 years we (HBCU) played each other and were proud of our teams and our programs. We are the only race that sees a problem playing each other.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 10:45:44 GMT -5
WCA, I was on that committee for a year and I can't tell you how many "meetings before the meeting" took place. You vote for me I'll vote for you, from a conference point of view, etc... etc... Maybe it's changed. Just my experience. If that is the case, then it is what it is. I wouldn't want A&T involved in a system like that anyways but it is what it is. We're playing for a spot in that HBCU Champ. Game, at least it seems like that for now.
|
|
saabman
Official BDF member
Posts: 11,781
|
Post by saabman on Feb 17, 2015 12:45:14 GMT -5
I've seen the pros and cons about the bowls vs FCS playoffs and I've finally concluded this some folks are basing their opinions more on "emotions" rather than "financial." Let's be honest, there's very little money coming to HBCU programs with either events. Never mind the fact that we lose every year, I don't think Morgan Statesegregationoney last year in their appearance and rapid exit from the playoff. I've been around A&T for nearly 50 years and I've never heard anyone in the Athletic Department say "we got to get into the FCS playoff because of the money!" So it ain't the money. As for the proposed MEAC/SWAC Bowl, I've "heard" that ESPN is putting up $1 million dollars per conference for participation in this bowl. I don't know what the split is for the teams but that's got to be equal to the money we get from appearing in the FCS playoff. Now we can debate who gets what and who may or may not make money but let me repeat...there's very little money coming to HBCU programs from either events. One other point, I don't think if we play the MEAC/SWAC Bowl we automatically drops us back to DII. The SWAC hasn't played in the FCS Playoff for years and I've seen their schools in the NCAA basketball tournament. Now if there's a requirement that you either play in the FCS playoff or drop back to DII, I'm sure someone on here will point that out to me. Now let's deal with the emotional 900 pound gorilla in the room...segregation. There are some that see this change as a step back into segregation...separate but unequal. They feel that we have worked hard to go to school with whites, eat at the same lunch counter with whites and play on the same field with whites. They view dropping out of the FCS playoff as a step back to segregation. I grew up in the "segregated South" and lived through "Jim Crow" and "separate but unequal" laws so I understand that emotion. But this is about money not civil rights. We are not making money or building our athletic programs playing in the FCS football playoff. And I know its tough to admit it but we don't have the financial resources, talent, facilities or commitment to build the level of athletic program to be able to make money in the FCS football playoff. So let's remember what our (HBCU) mission is...educate students from our community. Personally I'd rather take the money it would take to fund a program that could win in the FCS playoff and use it to fund more academic scholarships rather that football facilities. For 100 years we (HBCU) played each other and were proud of our teams and our programs. We are the only race that sees a problem playing each other. 100% agree with you 69. Is ESPN seeing something in this that we are missing ? It had me wondering from the get why would they take a chance on this bowl game if they don't feel that this game couldn't work. I for one think the bowl can and will work. We are always talking about who is the best team in Hbcu football and now that we have a chance to prove it we come up with all these reasons not to do it to include segregation ? Come on now. I say play the bowl prove we're the best and take the money. Most of all make this thing work.
|
|
|
Post by aggierattler on Feb 17, 2015 13:14:32 GMT -5
I've seen the pros and cons about the bowls vs FCS playoffs and I've finally concluded this some folks are basing their opinions more on "emotions" rather than "financial." Let's be honest, there's very little money coming to HBCU programs with either events. Never mind the fact that we lose every year, I don't think Morgan Statesegregationoney last year in their appearance and rapid exit from the playoff. I've been around A&T for nearly 50 years and I've never heard anyone in the Athletic Department say "we got to get into the FCS playoff because of the money!" So it ain't the money. As for the proposed MEAC/SWAC Bowl, I've "heard" that ESPN is putting up $1 million dollars per conference for participation in this bowl. I don't know what the split is for the teams but that's got to be equal to the money we get from appearing in the FCS playoff. Now we can debate who gets what and who may or may not make money but let me repeat...there's very little money coming to HBCU programs from either events. One other point, I don't think if we play the MEAC/SWAC Bowl we automatically drops us back to DII. The SWAC hasn't played in the FCS Playoff for years and I've seen their schools in the NCAA basketball tournament. Now if there's a requirement that you either play in the FCS playoff or drop back to DII, I'm sure someone on here will point that out to me. Now let's deal with the emotional 900 pound gorilla in the room...segregation. There are some that see this change as a step back into segregation...separate but unequal. They feel that we have worked hard to go to school with whites, eat at the same lunch counter with whites and play on the same field with whites. They view dropping out of the FCS playoff as a step back to segregation. I grew up in the "segregated South" and lived through "Jim Crow" and "separate but unequal" laws so I understand that emotion. But this is about money not civil rights. We are not making money or building our athletic programs playing in the FCS football playoff. And I know its tough to admit it but we don't have the financial resources, talent, facilities or commitment to build the level of athletic program to be able to make money in the FCS football playoff. So let's remember what our (HBCU) mission is...educate students from our community. Personally I'd rather take the money it would take to fund a program that could win in the FCS playoff and use it to fund more academic scholarships rather that football facilities. For 100 years we (HBCU) played each other and were proud of our teams and our programs. We are the only race that sees a problem playing each other. 100% agree with you 69. Is ESPN seeing something in this that we are missing ? It had me wondering from the get why would they take a chance on this bowl game if they don't feel that this game couldn't work. I for one think the bowl can and will work. We are always talking about who is the best team in Hbcu football and now that we have a chance to prove it we come up with all these reasons not to do it to include segregation ? Come on now. I say play the bowl prove we're the best and take the money. Most of all make this thing work. What chances are they (ESPN) taking??? It's merely "programming" to them...and they are paying peanuts for it. Just look at the MEAC/SWAC Challenge... they couldn't care less if there are 40,000 or 4,000 at the game. And how will this game "work" when most folks on here have already said that they wouldn't watch it (or attend it) unless we are in it?? That's a direct reflection of 90% of black college fans...they are not going to watch it/attend it unless their school is in it. And when this bowl game collapses after it's 3-year run, with the drastic changes in the landscape of college football over the last few years, I guarantee you that the MEAC will not get its automatic bid back. That train would have already left the station with us holding our luggage.
|
|
|
Post by marchingband1969 on Feb 17, 2015 14:27:05 GMT -5
"And when this bowl game collapses after it's 3-year run, with the drastic changes in the landscape of college football over the last few years, I guarantee you that the MEAC will not get its automatic bid back. That train would have already left the station with us holding our luggage."
I don't want to get into a long debate because the success or failure of this new bowl will not be decided by the folks on this board but...I still don't see the financial value of playing (and continuing to lose) in the FCS playoff. Unless we get a "guarantee" to make some money in the FCS playoff, I don't see where it's that valuable.
The only way to win (and make any money) in the FCS playoff is to host the games and continue to win games. Something no HBCU has managed to do. And to host and win games, we will have to significantly increase our financial support of our football program. So we've got to invest a lot more money (that we don't have) in hope that we can host and win enough games(which we've never done) to make it worthwhile to play in the FCS playoff.
You are absolutely correct that there are "drastic changes in the landscape of college football" and everybody, HBCU's and PWI's are jockeying to put themselves in a better place to deal with these changes. I'm not sure this is the "right" path for the MEAC or A&T but it is a path. And unless someone can show me all of the millions of dollars we have made playing in the FCS playoff the past 10 or 20 years, I'm okay with us taking another path.
As we prepare in Charlotte to celebrate another CIAA Tournament, I can only imaging all of the grief the A&T athletic department faced in 1966 when they decided to join the MEAC and split with the CIAA. I'm sure there were just as many fans that said we were crazy giving up a sure thing like the CIAA. Think about the buzz in the mid-1960's around the CIAA with the greatest teams, sold out tournaments, standing room only home games and fantastic players like Earl Monroe. And we wanted to pull out for some unknown conference with teams scattered all over the east coast. We didn't know then where this conference was going just like we don't know where this new bowl will go. But it's worth a try.
I think that we have a choice with this first MEAC/SWAC Bowl. We can stay home to demonstrate our disgust with the decision to leave the FCS playoff or we can show up, party, talk trash and enjoy HBCU football and pageantry. Either way the other teams in the FCS playoff will not care. I hope by the end of this season, we have decided to go have some fun.
|
|
|
Post by thefriscotxaggie on Feb 17, 2015 15:43:14 GMT -5
I wonder how nexts seasons wins and loses will change our mood on the FCS Play-Offs vs. Bowl Game. What if we play a more than respectible game against Carolina and finish the season 9 -1 and are ranked in the The Top 10 of the FCS poll....Wonder how we will react?
The scenario above is a real posibility.....
|
|
|
Post by aggierattler on Feb 17, 2015 15:52:21 GMT -5
"And when this bowl game collapses after it's 3-year run, with the drastic changes in the landscape of college football over the last few years, I guarantee you that the MEAC will not get its automatic bid back. That train would have already left the station with us holding our luggage." I don't want to get into a long debate because the success or failure of this new bowl will not be decided by the folks on this board but...I still don't see the financial value of playing (and continuing to lose) in the FCS playoff. Unless we get a "guarantee" to make some money in the FCS playoff, I don't see where it's that valuable. The only way to win (and make any money) in the FCS playoff is to host the games and continue to win games. Something no HBCU has managed to do. And to host and win games, we will have to significantly increase our financial support of our football program. So we've got to invest a lot more money (that we don't have) in hope that we can host and win enough games(which we've never done) to make it worthwhile to play in the FCS playoff. You are absolutely correct that there are "drastic changes in the landscape of college football" and everybody, HBCU's and PWI's are jockeying to put themselves in a better place to deal with these changes. I'm not sure this is the "right" path for the MEAC or A&T but it is a path. And unless someone can show me all of the millions of dollars we have made playing in the FCS playoff the past 10 or 20 years, I'm okay with us taking another path. As we prepare in Charlotte to celebrate another CIAA Tournament, I can only imaging all of the grief the A&T athletic department faced in 1966 when they decided to join the MEAC and split with the CIAA. I'm sure there were just as many fans that said we were crazy giving up a sure thing like the CIAA. Think about the buzz in the mid-1960's around the CIAA with the greatest teams, sold out tournaments, standing room only home games and fantastic players like Earl Monroe. And we wanted to pull out for some unknown conference with teams scattered all over the east coast. We didn't know then where this conference was going just like we don't know where this new bowl will go. But it's worth a try. I think that we have a choice with this first MEAC/SWAC Bowl. We can stay home to demonstrate our disgust with the decision to leave the FCS playoff or we can show up, party, talk trash and enjoy HBCU football and pageantry. Either way the other teams in the FCS playoff will not care. I hope by the end of this season, we have decided to go have some fun. MB1969-- We can civilly "agree to disagree." I respect your stance. I did want to point out that when NCA&T, NCCU, Howard, DelState, UMES and Morgan State left the CIAA and joined SC State to form the MEAC, it was brought about by a disagreement solely over "which sport drives the economic engine in collegiate athletics, football or basketball." Even though basketball is important, our schools believed that football would have to be the driving force to fund athletics at our schools. We did have basketball games played in on-campus packed houses...but most of our gyms were 1,500-to-2,000-seat sweatboxes. (Of course, we utilized the Greensboro Coliseum and Winston-Salem Coliseum for some of the games vs. the Rams.) I'm sure that you already know this, but it wasn't about Division I vs. Division II. A lot of folks think that "going Division I" was the reason that the conference was formed. The MEAC was a Division II conference for its first 10 years, I believe, and didn't become a Division I conference until around 1978 or 1979.
|
|