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Post by 4XLAGGIE on Dec 23, 2014 8:49:44 GMT -5
A lot of assumptions and finger pointing are being made on a premise of a bowl game that has yet to be verified by either an official chancellor/president's meeting, the absence of any verifiable offer by a major sponsor or a any vote of the conference membership other than what came up in the usual rumor mills on message boards which may or may not be based on anything that is factual. Seems to be awfully premature to speculate on people's supposed motives and positions on an potential issue without any actual concrete facts or context from which to draw such conclusions. I could not agree with you more...
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 23, 2014 11:26:13 GMT -5
For those of you that want to continue as we have been, which amounts to swinging blindfold at a baseball, I can understand your argument. But, you guys really don't demonstrate what is so advantageous about us competing in the playoffs. Does it help recruiting, maybe but, not to the level that one would anticipate. Do we get a participation pay out? Not if our fans don't show up the Saturday after Thanksgiving provided we are in position to host a playoff game...afterwhich we pay $30 grand. So, what are the advantages...we could possibly win a championship! Okay, I get that and real talk, we are light years away. But anywayz. Now, flip the pancake, if there is a guarantee associated with the HBCU bowl game, you tell me why we shouldn't consider? I don't think anyone has a money tree they can go shake out back and that always seems to be our biggest challenge. So. hey ohsix, i can only speak for myself regarding your question. but to me, it isn’t about “advantages” one way or the other. to me its about sitting at the very same table as all other pwc fcs programs. its about our “national brand” as an institution of higher learning, not just football. i don’t want to be “pigeon holed” into an hbcu “only” identity. don’t get me wrong, i’m extremely proud that a&t is an hbcu and in no way would i want to abandon our identity as an hbcu. however, i also don’t want a&t to be known “exclusively” as an hbcu. we have great academics at a&t, especially our engineering and technology schools. i want to be a full fledged member of the fcs community at large and as our enrollment continues to diversify, so should our “brand” . why shouldn’t we align ourselves with the nationally respected wm & mary’s, vmi’s, citadel’s, davidson’s, holy cross’s, lehigh’s, and villanova’s of the world? to me, the playoffs is what links us to those schools even though we haven’t performed well at that level. football by far is the biggest sport in america and it brings national publicity to our school when we align ourselves with a more diverse audience than just the “hbcu” audience. i want to be on the same stage as all of the other pwc fcs schools. i don’t want to be an “asterisk mark” that says hbcu only. personally, i’m not as bothered that hbcu’s haven’t won playoff games as some other folk are because i understand the reasons why. to me, as long as we keep fighting to the best of our abilities to advance in the playoffs, then i’m okay with that. because i understand the “institutional disadvantages” of hbcu’s relative to the playoffs, i’m not in the least bit embarrassed by the performance of hbcu’s at that level. long time ago when i was a kid, i went to an “all black” elementary school until i was in the 3rd grade when they integrated public schools where i grew up. in hindsight, it was probably one of the best things ever in my entire life to happen to me. before i was forced to go to a predominantly white elementary school, as an 8 year old kid, i thought blacks were academically inferior to whites because of the “negative stereotypes” that proliferated the entire country about black folk. but once i was “forced” to attend a white elementary school, i learned that i was just as intelligent as my white peers and i also learned that “most” whites aren’t racists. who knows? i may have went the rest of my life thinking blacks were academically inferior to whites had public schools not been integrated when i was growing up. and i feel the same way about removing ourselves from the playoffs. like aggierattler said, our ancestors fought so hard and so long so that we could sit at the same table as our white peers. furthermore, the “a&t four” risked their lives so that we would have the right to sit at the same dining counters as anybody else. i want to be viewed as “equals”, not second class citizens. my problem with a postseason bowl against the swac has nothing to do with the idea of playing an fcs hbcu national championship game. my problem with that game is “forfeiting our automatic bid” to compete in the fcs playoffs. if we can keep our autobid and still play against the swac with our highest qualifier that doesn’t make the playoffs, then i have no problem whatsoever with that...
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Dec 23, 2014 12:13:34 GMT -5
The MEAC has been competing in the FCS playoffs for 30 years. I'm tired of just competing ---- it's time to win. None of our schools has won a playoff game since 1999. We've been competing in them, but haven't been winning anything. From my vantage point, we've been competing for years - with nothing much to show for it. If we're serious about the playoffs, we need to talk about winning in them......I'm done with all of this competing talk. It's time to be in the business of winning. One of the things our A.D. must address is the need for us to pay for a home game in the playoffs. I would much rather take my chances against the better schools in the FCS at Aggie Stadium than have to hit the road and play them at their place. We were destined to be the sole MEAC champion this year.....we were destined to play an at-large Richmond team in Richmond. AIN'T NO WAY IN HELL A CONFERENCE CHAMPION SHOULD BE ON THE ROAD PLAYING AT AN AT-LARGE TEAM'S STADIUM.......that's a bunch of bullihst and we all know it. As I've stated before, getting a first round game at home doesn't guarantee 1st-round success.......but not having it virtually guarantees 1st round failure. Again - I'M TIRED OF COMPETING.......IT'S TIME TO WIN. Are we doing everything on our end to enhance our chances of winning a 1st round FCS game, if we are fortunate enough to get one? ? my problem with that game is “forfeiting our automatic bid” to compete in the fcs playoffs. if we can keep our autobid and still play against the swac with our highest qualifier that doesn’t make the playoffs, then i have no problem whatsoever with that...
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oleschoolaggie
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 23, 2014 12:29:55 GMT -5
all i can suggest to you is do some true "research" until you understand with "facts" why hbcu's do not perform well in the playoffs. do some homework is all i can tell you because obviously you haven't. all of this emotional stuff without knowing why hbcu's don't win playoff games is just that, emotional. there are institutional reasons why hbcu's don't win playoff games and unless you do your homework, you will never understand that.
if you think hbcu's and pwc's play on a level playing field, then you're completely out of touch with reality and i'll leave it at that...
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Dec 23, 2014 13:00:40 GMT -5
No OSA....that's not going to cut it. I'm not being emotional one bit. If A&T is a conference champion, our AD should be doing whatever possible to get a first round playoff game at home. POINT BLANK. That's not being emotional - that's about doing whatever possible to increase your chances of winning.
If you want our conference champion (whether it be A&T or someone else) to have to go out on the road and come home with a playoff win year in and year out........we will likely go another 15 years without winning a playoff game.
I'm aware SCSU lost to Furman AT HOME last year.... I'm aware Bethune-Cookman has lost to both New Hampshire and Coastal Carolina AT HOME years back..... I remember when Hampton lost to Richmond years ago AT HOME......
With all of that being said, I would rather play a game on my home turf instead of travelling the countryside trying to win a playoff game at someone else's house.
Personally, if our schools aren't going to pay the fees to play home playoff games YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, I don't believe we're truly serious about winning.
There's COMPETING.....There's WINNING......There's a difference. I understand the inherent disadvantages HBCUs may have; but if we are too poor to even pay for a home playoff game......we really need to consider the Heritage Bowl option where we get some money back in the process. Let me be clear ---- I DO NOT WANT THAT OPTION. However, I'm not interested in travelling for playoff games....especially if we're a conference champion. I'm not down with this mindset, where we are immediately putting ourselves at a disadvantage before kickoff......
Feel free to tell me whatever books, websites, and encyclopedias you want me to read.......all I ask of you is to USE YOUR COMMON SENSE ON THIS ONE.
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Post by DOOMS on Dec 23, 2014 13:05:47 GMT -5
That's why I'm advocating competing where we can afford to be competitive and bringing our hbcu brethren with us. That would be the best of both worlds in my opinion. Better than R. Kelly/Jay Z even.
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oleschoolaggie
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Posts: 24,195
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Post by oleschoolaggie on Dec 23, 2014 13:24:30 GMT -5
No OSA....that's not going to cut it. I'm not being emotional one bit. If A&T is a conference champion, our AD should be doing whatever possible to get a first round playoff game at home. POINT BLANK. That's not being emotional - that's about doing whatever possible to increase your chances of winning. If you want our conference champion (whether it be A&T or someone else) to have to go out on the road and come home with a playoff win year in and year out........we will likely go another 15 years without winning a playoff game. I'm aware SCSU lost to Furman AT HOME last year.... I'm aware Bethune-Cookman has lost to both New Hampshire and Coastal Carolina AT HOME years back..... I remember when Hampton lost to Richmond years ago AT HOME...... With all of that being said, I would rather play a game on my home turf instead of travelling the countryside trying to win a playoff game at someone else's house. Personally, if our schools aren't going to pay the fees to play home playoff games YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, I don't believe we're truly serious about winning. There's COMPETING.....There's WINNING......There's a difference. I understand the inherent disadvantages HBCUs may have; but if we are too poor to even pay for a home playoff game......we really need to consider the Heritage Bowl option where we get some money back in the process. Let me be clear ---- I DO NOT WANT THAT OPTION. However, I'm not interested in travelling for playoff games....especially if we're a conference champion. I'm not down with this mindset, where we are immediately putting ourselves at a disadvantage before kickoff...... Feel free to tell me whatever books, websites, and encyclopedias you want me to read.......all I ask of you is to USE YOUR COMMON SENSE ON THIS ONE. its got nothing to do with playing playoff games at home or on the road. you just don’t get it! and i ain’t gonna waste my time trying to explain it to you. my point has got nothing to do with playoff ”wins or losses”, that’s a totally different topic in and of itself. yes, you are emotional because your entire rant is regarding “wins or losses” and my point has nothing to do with that. again i’ll repeat for the thousandth time, i’d rather lose a playoff game than win a postseason bowl against the swac if it means forfeiting the autobid to the playoffs. that's how much i care about winning playoff games. i’m not even gonna waste my time anymore. please don’t reply...
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Post by marchingband1969 on Dec 23, 2014 13:29:22 GMT -5
I've read a lot the last three days about what A&T and the MEAC should do. People have suggested moving to other conferences, dropping back to DII or DII, and even creating a super HBCU conference. But regardless what we do one thing will remain the same...we and our HBCU sister schools don't have unlimited dollars to devote to sports. Hell most of the HBCU schools that people think should move to another conference are having challenges just keeping their doors open.
What I don't want die-hard HBCU football fans to forget is our universities are struggling to grow their enrollment and deal with budget cuts. If we had mega alumni dollars coming in then we could go to any conference we want but we don't. That's why I want everyone to wait for the official announcement before we start complaining about the decision.
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Dec 23, 2014 13:39:28 GMT -5
No OSA....that's not going to cut it. I'm not being emotional one bit. If A&T is a conference champion, our AD should be doing whatever possible to get a first round playoff game at home. POINT BLANK. That's not being emotional - that's about doing whatever possible to increase your chances of winning. If you want our conference champion (whether it be A&T or someone else) to have to go out on the road and come home with a playoff win year in and year out........we will likely go another 15 years without winning a playoff game. I'm aware SCSU lost to Furman AT HOME last year.... I'm aware Bethune-Cookman has lost to both New Hampshire and Coastal Carolina AT HOME years back..... I remember when Hampton lost to Richmond years ago AT HOME...... With all of that being said, I would rather play a game on my home turf instead of travelling the countryside trying to win a playoff game at someone else's house. Personally, if our schools aren't going to pay the fees to play home playoff games YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, I don't believe we're truly serious about winning. There's COMPETING.....There's WINNING......There's a difference. I understand the inherent disadvantages HBCUs may have; but if we are too poor to even pay for a home playoff game......we really need to consider the Heritage Bowl option where we get some money back in the process. Let me be clear ---- I DO NOT WANT THAT OPTION. However, I'm not interested in travelling for playoff games....especially if we're a conference champion. I'm not down with this mindset, where we are immediately putting ourselves at a disadvantage before kickoff...... Feel free to tell me whatever books, websites, and encyclopedias you want me to read.......all I ask of you is to USE YOUR COMMON SENSE ON THIS ONE. Regardless of what happens with the MEAC/SWAC situation.... here are some real numbers for A&T athletics in FY 13-14: Budget for FY 13-14: $10.17 million Student Athletic Fee revenue: $6.85 million AAF scholarship contribution: $0.16 million Sponsorship: $0.11 million A&T just hired a marketing director just over a week ago, which will help on the sponsorship and selling AAF. But I believe far too many of our alums have their head in the sand about how athletics work. If the donor level goes up, the sponsorship level goes up.... then the AAF contribution goes up. Sponsors don't give just because we're A&T. They put more money into schools where residual money is spent in greater volume. If you're willing to donate money to your school.... a sponsor looks at you as being more likely to buy their product because of how you use your residual funds. To NSS's point. If the AAF scholarship contribution is $1.00 million instead of $0.16 million.... Hilton easily has the chips to make the home bid out of the SAF revenue that doesn't have to be spent on scholarships. The solution is there.... the problem is US.....
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Dec 23, 2014 13:41:47 GMT -5
You know what your problem is, OSA......you try to paint yourself differently than me everytime we have a mild disagreement. I gotta tell you, we don't really disagree that much. I would also rather lose a playoff game than win a postseason bowl game against the SWAC.......But here's the main thing where we differ. I'M SICK AND TIRED TALKING ABOUT LOSING PLAYOFF GAMES!!!!As I have clearly stated, I'd rather stay in the playoffs than play in a Heritage Bowl.......there's nothing about that statement where you can say we disagree, no matter how hard you try, So,,,,,,if we're in agreement that we need to stay in the playoffs, what can we do to enhance our chances of winning a game? ONE OF THE MAJOR THINGS WE CAN DO IS BID FOR A HOME PLAYOFF GAME......Even in situations where there are 2 well-funded PWCs battling each other in round one of the playoffs, you better believe they're trying to submit a bid to get that home game. Why can't we at least do that.........I hear you loud and clear; your argument is more about playoffs vs Heritage Bowl - I get it........I agree with your stance. Now, I'm more focused on the next step - doing whatever we can to win a playoff game. I know securing a home playoff bid is no guarantee for a victory, but there's no way I'm going to put my team at a disadvantage by having them travel to a Richmond, Coastal Carolina or James Madison in round one. I'm gonna do whatever possible to help MY AGGIES INCREASE THEIR CHANCES OF WINNING A PLAYOFF GAME. It may seem as if I'm typing the same thing over and over again......I am.......it needs to be stated. Our football program has truly gotten better - why leave them hanging when we want them to accomplish feats HBCUs have been unsuccessful in achieving for years? ??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2014 13:49:04 GMT -5
To support Durham's post, many schools look to the booster clubs to pay the playoff Bids.
A good example is Yousef's Club and App. state.
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Post by neighborhoodsuperstar on Dec 23, 2014 13:49:53 GMT -5
durhamgsoaggie, The numbers you posted are fine and dandy.......has Hilton ever told you or anyone else he is financially constrained to bid for a home game? The only reason why I'm stating this is because everytime there's a money issue with A&T athletics, we play the "we are broke" game. Remember when we fired Eaves ---- folks were clamoring about where we'd find the money for the next coach..... Remember when we fired Lee a few years after firing Fobbs ----- folks were clamoring about where we'd find the money to hire our next football coach.....
Yet miraculously, we find this money out of nowhere to pay them. The same thing goes here - I'm not buying the thought that A&T doesn't have the money to fund a home playoff game. Sorry all - I've heard this year after year after year.......but lo and behold, we're still standing, we're paying coaches and there's been no talk about dropping down to DII.....
BID FOR A HOME PLAYOFF GAME
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Dec 23, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
durhamgsoaggie, The numbers you posted are fine and dandy.......has Hilton ever told you or anyone else he is financially constrained to bid for a home game? The only reason why I'm stating this is because everytime there's a money issue with A&T athletics, we play the "we are broke" game. Remember when we fired Eaves ---- folks were clamoring about where we'd find the money for the next coach..... Remember when we fired Lee a few years after firing Fobbs ----- folks were clamoring about where we'd find the money to hire our next football coach..... Yet miraculously, we find this money out of nowhere to pay them. The same thing goes here - I'm not buying the thought that A&T doesn't have the money to fund a home playoff game. Sorry all - I've heard this year after year after year.......but lo and behold, we're still standing, we're paying coaches and there's been no talk about dropping down to DII..... BID FOR A HOME PLAYOFF GAME Looking at the budget numbers for myself.... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that there wasn't a lot of loose change to move around. We'd have to cut something (or someone) to free up the $40K+ for a bid THIS year because it wasn't budgeted. Cutting something to hire a coach has a substantially greater priority than cutting something for a playoff game bid. It needs to be budgeted for.... and I believe it would be in subsequent years. There is a line item under Other Expenses/Transfers with about $0.24 million under it. If I was a betting man.... I'd bet that line item is a good bit larger than it is this year.... particularly if AAF can increase its scholarship donation and athletics can increase sponsorship. So... it all comes down to the budget still...
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Post by durhamgsoaggie on Dec 23, 2014 14:31:39 GMT -5
To support Durham's post, many schools look to the booster clubs to pay the playoff Bids. A good example is Yousef's Club and App. state. Pretty much this.... it's much easier to get your booster club to fund 2 more scholarships to free up SAF funds for the bid versus cutting something (or someone) out of your current year's budget to do it. It's on the alumni to make this happen, though....
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Post by aggierattler on Dec 23, 2014 21:25:52 GMT -5
As I said days ago, THE PROBLEM IS US (and our minimal support).
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